[Politics] The Labour Government

[Is it PotG?]

I am starting to get the feeling that Sir Keir Starmer is going to be the greatest Prime Minister for many, many years.

The key reasoning behind my feeling is that he has one thing no other prime minister in my adult life has had - the willingness to be unpopular in order to do what is best for the country.

It's quite clear what his game plan is - Raise & save money while the interest rates are relatively high - spend and invest when the interest rates come down.

It's going to be tough for a very short while - but I can see him improving this country by a considerable margin, especially if he gets two terms.

 

[Mustafa II]

View attachment 189376

What even is this?

I must admit I haven't read much of this thread, but if memes/gifs used by 13 years olds is the benchmark of the quality of discussion here, I'm out

 

[Is it PotG?]

What even is this?

I must admit I haven't read much of this thread, but if memes/gifs used by 13 years olds is the benchmark of the quality of discussion here, I'm out

 

[LamieRobertson]

What even is this?

I must admit I haven't read much of this thread, but if memes/gifs used by 13 years olds is the benchmark of the quality of discussion here, I'm out

I think thats been guessed already

 

[Weststander]

I agree - I think longer term we're going to see real benefits as a country. In the short term, there will be plenty of "gotcha" stories and noise, noise, noise from the usual suspects but I get the impression this prime minister is focused on doing the work rather than playing the media game. Hopefully he's able to really get going implementing policy and taking decisions that aren't popular but which will start to move the ship in the right direction.

I don’t think the WFP story will die a death, it will be a constant topic, especially each autumn/winter. Unless Reeves comes up with a solution in the budget for poor pensioners above pension credit. The reason, a whole load of OAP’s are affected, they and their families won’t let this lie.

People are smart. They can see through the smoke screen, next April’s triple lock increase won’t help pay for heating this winter.

 

[Mustafa II]

I don’t think the WFP story will die a death, it will be a constant topic, especially each autumn/winter. Unless Reeves comes up with a solution in the budget for poor pensioners above pension credit. The reason, a whole load of OAP’s are affected, they and their families won’t let this lie.

People are smart. They can see through the smoke screen that next April’s triple lock increase won’t help pay for heating this winter.

People are not smart, which is why this absolute nonsense debate over the WFP is perpetuating.

Starmer sticking with the removal of WFP is exactly what has gained my respect of him. Sticking by a policy which is unpopular, yet the right thing to do for the country, is hopefully sign of things to come with his leadership.

Let the unions, the pensioners, scream and shout about it. We need to raise and save money as a country and it needs to be fair.

 

[cjd]

And for those that say, "What has interest got to do with it?" try telling that the young with £NIL savings



"The PM has refused to apologise to pensioners" - why should he??

I've said it before but Starmer needs a top spin doctor like Alistair Campbell in pronto because the optics are shocking. The endless wait for the first Budget is not helping either, creating a vacuum of despair and pessimism.

I don't mean to offend the young, but I understand tat between 2002 and 2011 approximately 6 million children received money from the Government to encourage savings.

My four youngest children all received this benefit/gift.

I understand that for each £250.00 given ( some got £1000.00 ) , this on average matured into £1250.00 at age 18. ( Some will have matured at £4,000.00 ). I can't honestly remember what the final figures were when my children were 18.

However, each birthday, Xmas...achievements with GCSE,s etc etc were partially rewarded by both me and their mum, grannies, aunts/uncles etc with I think they were Post Office Savings Bonds that increased every five years.

Once they reached 18, all of them declined the opportunity to go to University and they commenced work.....and saving part of their wages and paid weekly 'board and lodgings'.

The now 26 year old, bought his first house a year ago, having saved £32,00.00. The now 24 year old will reach his target savings of £25,000.00 in the Spring and will buy his first property ( a flat ). The two younger ones are still saving but on the same trajectory. None have received any substantial help ( other than guidance) from their parents.

I don't 'think' it is more difficult for younger people today....I know it is. But, to say blithely that young people have "NIL" funds is either because they've pissed it all up the wall, or decided to spend their disposable income on other things (gap year, back packing, barbers in Portslade, drugs, cars, clothes, holidays, or University courses , which will eventually bring their own reward etc etc etc etc) . This is not the fault of pensioners.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

I don’t think the WFP story will die a death, it will be a constant topic, especially each autumn/winter. Unless Reeves comes up with a solution in the budget for poor pensioners above pension credit. The reason, a whole load of OAP’s are affected, they and their families won’t let this lie.

People are smart. They can see through the smoke screen, next April’s triple lock increase won’t help pay for heating this winter.

Thank goodness for the triple lock. The April ‘24 state pension increase was 8.5% so helps towards this winter. My income went up far less but don’t begrudge the pensioner increase.

 

[cjd]

People are not smart,

Hmmmmm.......? Ok then.

I shall just have to disagree with you.

 

[A1X]

 

[cjd]

A wonderful and poignant speech.

 

[A1X]

Apologies if fixtures

 

[Pavilionaire]

To put the "pensioners also have savings income" argument to bed, 44% don't. That's 5.544m OAP's.
https://www.gov.uk/government/stati...s-incomes-financial-years-ending-1995-to-2023

2.2m qualify for pension credit (of which 880k fail to claim), leaving 3.244m OAP's who have neither investment income or who would ever qualify for pension credit.

Again, we need to stop generalising.

1. I'm doing a Tax Return right now for an 81 year old guy whose interest income just increased on his one building society account from £1,469.20 in 2022/23 to £15,962.78 in 2023/24. His capital savings in that account have increased by £298,733 to £334,696, so half of that is his interest increase.

This year's interest just on last year's interest will be £640.

2. I don't believe that 44% of pensioners have no savings, but even if that were true then why have they not saved anything at all over their working life? If 4 in 9 of today's younger generation manage to save nothing but live to be 90 then society will be f***ed.

One of the best things David Cameron ever did was introduce Auto-Enrolment in 2012. Mandatory saving for pensions via PAYE should have come in long before then, and this is one of the reasons why many of today's elderly have no non-state pension.

3. I totally believe that the WFP should be means tested but it has been given out to every pensioner for far too long, and it is just wrong to give a benefit to those who don't need it. There was no massive outcry when Child Benefit started to be withdrawn for those earning over £50K, and - indeed - I think there's an argument for going lower.

I spoke to a client yesterday who just reached pension age, I joked that his timing was shocking re WFP payment and he admitted he didn't need it, was glad it was going for people with his income and resources, and it would have been morally wrong if he'd received it.

 

[Weststander]

1. I'm doing a Tax Return right now for an 81 year old guy whose interest income just increased on his one building society account from £1,469.20 in 2022/23 to £15,962.78 in 2023/24. His capital savings in that account have increased by £298,733 to £334,696, so half of that is his interest increase.

This year's interest just on last year's interest will be £640.

2. I don't believe that 44% of pensioners have no savings, but even if that were true then why have they not saved anything at all over their working life? If 4 in 9 of today's younger generation manage to save nothing but live to be 90 then society will be f***ed.

One of the best things David Cameron ever did was introduce Auto-Enrolment in 2012. Mandatory saving for pensions via PAYE should have come in long before then, and this is one of the reasons why many of today's elderly have no non-state pension.

3. I totally believe that the WFP should be means tested but it has been given out to every pensioner for far too long, and it is just wrong to give a benefit to those who don't need it. There was no massive outcry when Child Benefit started to be withdrawn for those earning over £50K, and - indeed - I think there's an argument for going lower.

I spoke to a client yesterday who just reached pension age, I joked that his timing was shocking re WFP payment and he admitted he didn't need it, was glad it was going for people with his income and resources, and it would have been morally wrong if he'd received it.

We both deal with people who’ve done okay or very well. Completely unrepresentative.

I’ve always maintained that better off OAP’s shouldn’t receive WFP.

Auto enrolment is great, but perhaps came too late for middle age folk. Plus it should be mandatory.

Back to subject, a load of poorer OAP’s have called R5 and LBC explaining how this will hurt them. Supported by the unions and charities, I believe them.

 

[Mustafa II]

Back to subject, a load of poorer OAP’s have called R5 and LBC explaining how this will hurt them. Supported by the unions and charities, I believe them.

There are many factions of people 'hurting' in this society. Remember that the poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get the WFP.

For this to be fair, the WFP should either extend to ALL people, or withdraw it and only give it to the poorest pensioners who actually need it - the latter has just happened. It is quite obviously the correct thing to do. I really don't understand why this is an issue at all.

 

[London Irish]

 

[KZNSeagull]

There are many factions of people 'hurting' in this society. Remember that the poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get the WFP.

For this to be fair, the WFP should either extend to ALL people, or withdraw it and only give it to the poorest pensioners who actually need it - the latter has just happened. It is quite obviously the correct thing to do. I really don't understand why this is an issue at all.

Because there are 880k pensioners who qualify for pension credit but do not claim it for whatever reason. The policy objectives (only give the WFP to those that need it) is the right thing to do, the way of means testing (ie pension credits) is wrong.

 

[London Irish]

There are many factions of people 'hurting' in this society. Remember that the poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get the WFP.

For this to be fair, the WFP should either extend to ALL people, or withdraw it and only give it to the poorest pensioners who actually need it - the latter has just happened. It is quite obviously the correct thing to do. I really don't understand why this is an issue at all.

Because a study by Labour in 2017 said many would die if it was implemented. No new impact assessment has been made now. But you don’t understand why it’s an issue

 

[nevergoagain]

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We both deal with people who’ve done okay or very well. Completely unrepresentative.

I’ve always maintained that better off OAP’s shouldn’t receive WFP.

Auto enrolment is great, but perhaps came too late for middle age folk. Plus it should be mandatory.

Back to subject, a load of poorer OAP’s have called R5 and LBC explaining how this will hurt them. Supported by the unions and charities, I believe them.

and that's the problem, it's a stupidly rushed through policy with as we now know, zero impact assessment. What I can't understand is why when the net return is such a small amount in terms of what they say they need. Even less if you think they are trying to encourage pensioners to apply for pensions credit if applicable. I don't think many right thinking people are against taking it from the really well off but there's been very little thought to this and where they have placed the cut off line.

As for whoever wrote people are not smart, give your head a wobble, and stop being so patronising.

 

[Weststander]

and that's the problem, it's a stupidly rushed through policy with as we now know, zero impact assessment. What I can't understand is why when the net return is such a small amount in terms of what they say they need. Even less if you think they are trying to encourage pensioners to apply for pensions credit if applicable. I don't think many right thinking people are against taking it from the really well off but there's been very little thought to this and where they have placed the cut off line.

As for whoever wrote people are not smart, give your head a wobble, and stop being so patronising.

It wasn’t fully thought through.