[Politics] The Labour Government

[abc]

What "overstretched sector"? Schools are closing and reducing intake because they don't have enough pupils coming through in many cases

Really? I thought the education system was underfunded with a shortage of teachers, crumbing buildings and excessive class sizes. Have I got this wrong?

 

[Bold Seagull]

The problem is that they are trying to achieve equality by closing all the best schools. It's a typical Labour policy - some people have more, and it's hard work trying to make things better for the worse off, so let's just make things worse for the better off.

They're also talking of making things a lot harder for academy schools. They want more bog standard comprehensives of the type that few of them went to and few of them send their children to. Shirley Williams was in favour of abolishing grammar schools for other peoples' children but sent her own to grammar school. Tony Blair was in favour of children going to the nearest comprehensive but sent his own children 8 miles across London to a selective school. Diane Abbott was opposed to privelege of all kinds and wanted equality of opportunity to all but she sent her child to a fee paying school. This is not new.

If the leadership decided to set an example for all Labour MPs and insist that they send their children to the school with most vacancies in their own constituency, I wonder how it would be supported?

What are you talking about? Tony Blair’s first main educational policy was the 1998 School Standards and Framework Act which laid down plans for specialist academies and taking failing schools out of LA control - much to the chargrin of Labour traditionalists who felt this was just a continuation of Thatcher’s 1988 Education Act. Tony Blair was in favour of parental choice and creating more specialist schools. This went even further in 2002 Education Act allowing private companies or religion to get more involved in certain schools.

So your wide sweeping generalisation about Labour and education is completely wide of the mark given Blair had a Tory mindset when it came to education largely under the influence of Andrew Adonis and US models of charter schools.

At the moment, Labour haven’t announced what they are doing with the current academy white paper, or any radical education policy generally, they’ve not even announced the rate of VAT they might apply to private education. Like I say, huge amount of hand wringing going on as you’ve just proved.

 

[keaton]

Really? I thought the education system was underfunded with a shortage of teachers, crumbing buildings and excessive class sizes. Have I got this wrong?

Most of it is correct but only a few have excessive class size. But the funding models schools with spaces have more issues with money meaning the other issues are worse.

 

[Bodian]

The problem is that they are trying to achieve equality by closing all the best schools. It's a typical Labour policy - some people have more, and it's hard work trying to make things better for the worse off, so let's just make things worse for the better off.

What they are actually doing is making sure that the businesses that run private schools pay VAT like most other businesses in the country. That's the equality they are trying to achieve.

They will then use that increased tax to help the majority of children.

 

[WATFORD zero]

My neighbour's lad is neurodiverse and won a place at a fee paying school with smaller classes on a full scholarship. Unfortunately sixth form fees for single mum with 2 jobs is out of the question now. So BHASVIc it is. Genuinely hope it works out for him.

The one thing I would point out about BHASVIC is although it is very high achieving, it's not the most supportive of the 6th form colleges around. The experiences of people I know who have been there (and it's a lot) is that if you are very good academically and need very little support it is excellent.

I've also had experience with people who have gone to various other colleges and Blatchington Mill, Cardinal Newman and Varndean seem to be the most supportive of pupils who struggle with anything academically.

 

[dsr-burnley]

What they are actually doing is making sure that the businesses that run private schools pay VAT like most other businesses in the country. That's the equality they are trying to achieve.

They will then use that increased tax to help the majority of children.

Most private schools are charities, not businesses.

It's generally stated that VAT is a tax on the individual, not the company. Changing the VAT rate is like changing the income tax rate for PAYE - it doesn't affect the company's profits in itself, it affects the amount the individual pays.

 

[JBizzle]

Okay I will take your word for it, but all the teachers I know are not the people you would necessarily pick to teach kids.

Just on this one, you could say this about any profession. I know plenty of doctors, nurses and social workers who terrify me, but I know others that were genuinely amazing.

I think public sector jobs like teaching and the NHS generally have people who start on that career as a vocation, but get ground down by the nature of trying to be a good, passionate caring doctor/nurse/teacher/social worker in an environment that's both financially and/or creatively straight-jacketed. They're also generally the first to be blamed when things go wrong.

In my experience. public sector teachers and social workers rarely go into it for the money, they go into it because it's what they want to do.

 

[worthingweird]

What they are actually doing is making sure that the businesses that run private schools pay VAT like most other businesses in the country. That's the equality they are trying to achieve.

They will then use that increased tax to help the majority of children.

Children will be forced out by higher fees and put more pressure on local schools...

 

[keaton]

Children will be forced out by higher fees and put more pressure on local schools...

Or fill the available spaces?

In some schools and some areas where there are issues with overcrowding. But numbers coming through are getting smaller and smaller which puts far more pressure on schools and local authorities

 

[Is it PotG?]

Children will be forced out by higher fees and put more pressure on local schools...

Indeed, even higher class sizes.

 

[timbha]

Or fill the available spaces?

In some schools and some areas where there are issues with overcrowding. But numbers coming through are getting smaller and smaller which puts far more pressure on schools and local authorities

Schools are closing or reducing class numbers because of falling intake numbers. Reduced numbers means lower income (per pupil) from the state/local councils.
Children moving from private schools will fill classes but increase the payments made by local authorities. Not sure if it’s a false economy.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Schools are closing or reducing class numbers because of falling intake numbers. Reduced numbers means lower income (per pupil) from the state/local councils.
Children moving from private schools will fill classes but increase the payments made by local authorities. Not sure if it’s a false economy.

The more popular schools are constantly oversubscribed, the less desirable not so.

 

[Bodian]

Most private schools are charities, not businesses.

It's generally stated that VAT is a tax on the individual, not the company. Changing the VAT rate is like changing the income tax rate for PAYE - it doesn't affect the company's profits in itself, it affects the amount the individual pays.

Private schools choose to register for charitable status for the various benefits that brings. Do not mistake this for a real charity.

I mentioned earlier that the change in VAT shouldn't affect the business - but be passed on to the parents. It's up to them to then choose whether they can afford it or not. Like the majority of us when making any purchase-based decision.

 

[A1X]

Most private schools are charities, not businesses.

It's generally stated that VAT is a tax on the individual, not the company. Changing the VAT rate is like changing the income tax rate for PAYE - it doesn't affect the company's profits in itself, it affects the amount the individual pays.

Most private schools claim to be charities for tax purposes. They are not, themselves, charities.

 

[keaton]

Schools are closing or reducing class numbers because of falling intake numbers. Reduced numbers means lower income (per pupil) from the state/local councils.
Children moving from private schools will fill classes but increase the payments made by local authorities. Not sure if it’s a false economy.

Pupil funding is something like £8k pa. From the numbers quoted that's the VAT on 1-2 pupils at a private school

 

[keaton]

The more popular schools are constantly oversubscribed, the less desirable not so.

Yes, because that's the definition of popular and less desirable school?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Yes, because that's the definition of popular and less desirable school?

I know, hence the desirability.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Private schools choose to register for charitable status for the various benefits that brings. Do not mistake this for a real charity.

I mentioned earlier that the change in VAT shouldn't affect the business - but be passed on to the parents. It's up to them to then choose whether they can afford it or not. Like the majority of us when making any purchase-based decision.

The distinction being that businesses are run for profit, charities aren't. There is argument that educating children should not be seen as a charitable purpose, but their legal status is that of non-profit making entities.

Changes in VAT do affect businesses. You said yourself that this change is to make "businesses" pay VAT; now you say that businesses do not pay VAT; but either way, a 20% increase in prices will affect the business or charity, even if yonly indirectly.

 

[pocketseagull]

The economy was growing fast in 2010 – but austerity killed off that growth. Will Labour learn from Osborne’s mistakes? I am not betting on it. Before the election, I signed a letter in support of the prospective Starmer government, in large part because I thought it was time to be rid of the Tories – but also in the hope that Labour would offer a new way forward.

I believed Starmer and Reeves were too smart to repeat austerity. It appears I was wrong | David Blanchflower

New governments usually come into power offering hope and a break with the past. This one is squandering the opportunity for a fresh start, says David Blanchflower

www.theguardian.com

 

[timbha]

The more popular schools are constantly oversubscribed, the less desirable not so.

Nothing to do with declining birth rates in recent years then?