[Politics] The Labour Government

[Zeberdi]

It's should be a key issue for the UK government

1)We helped create the situation in the first place
2) We sell huge amount of arms to Israel - around half a billion since 2015.
3) Israel has significant influence in the Labour Party. Top donors are Israel lobbyists.
4) Many of the front bench are in LFI
5) Certain MPs appear to to be parachuted in or demoted based on their attitudes to Israel. e.g Luke Akehurst.

This all to prop up a far right Apartheid state, that is for sure committing war crimes and potentially genocide.

No world issues are going to be solved on NSC (who has claimed they will) but personally I do what I can to show people unfamiliar with the situation to understand how much Israel unduly influences our politics (much worse in the US) and as a consequence allows the horrific mistreatment of Palestinians to continue for decades.

You consistently present only one side of the issue and a highly simplified one at that so forgive me for saying that you don’t seem to be quite as familiar with the situation as you claim - This complicated topic is also impossible to properly debate in the confines of 3 or 4 sentence posts, so any response to your titbit version of the Israel/Gaza conflict ends up being a TLDR which no one wants to read on a thread about a range of unrelated topics (which I think you are banking on so your posts go unchallenged)

Your attacks on the Labour Party and Keir Starmer are, to put it kindly, myopic:

• Starmer has already restored funding to UNRWA, (which Sunak suspended) breaking from US policy on the issue of Gaza for the first time in this conflict (and risking angering pro-Israel lobbies)
• Called for an immediate ceasefire
• Has put the Government in the centre of any talks to try and establish a 2 State solution
• Promised to apply international law “without fear or favour” - again, a departure from Sunak’s Government and the US who started a challenge against the ICJ ruling that Netanyahu was a war criminal.

Highly selective googling by those with a far left agenda to use as propaganda against the Labour Party is neither constructive imo, nor reflective of the reality of the situation for several reasons:

The bilateral links between the British establishment and Israel run deep - they have done so since the inception of the State of Israel in 1948 and were reenforced on 21 March 2023 under the Sunak Government with a newly signed bilateral agreement with Israel - see link below.

I would suggest you do some background reading (the document below would be a good start) to get a more realistic understanding of the relationship that Britain has with Israel and why it is in the interest of the UK and Palestinians to maintain those links with Israel as it provides not only bilateral security in the region vis a vis Iran but is a channel for the UK to have (hopefully a growing) influence on Israel in improving the future for the Palestinian people.

2030 roadmap for UK-Israel bilateral relations

www.gov.uk

You also might want to look at the Tory Party’s equivalent to the Labour Friends of Israel

Conservative Friends of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Another failed attempt at irony?

He'll never get the creases out at this rate!

 

[armchairclubber]

By all means debate it to your hearts content on the Israel/Gaza thread, but it's not a key issue for the British government, and nor should it be.

It not only should be a key issue for the British Government, it quite obviously is.

You'd need to be more than a little ignorant to think otherwise.

It's should be a key issue for the UK government

1)We helped create the situation in the first place
2) We sell huge amount of arms to Israel - around half a billion since 2015.
3) Israel has significant influence in the Labour Party. Top donors are Israel lobbyists.
4) Many of the front bench are in LFI
5) Certain MPs appear to to be parachuted in or demoted based on their attitudes to Israel. e.g Luke Akehurst.

This all to prop up a far right Apartheid state, that is for sure committing war crimes and potentially genocide.

 

[chickens]

It not only should be a key issue for the British Government, it quite obviously is.

You'd need to be more than a little ignorant to think otherwise.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Reeves & Co have found the Magic Money Tree

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ducation-secretary-bridget-phillipson-poverty

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...r-workers-could-get-above-inflation-pay-rises

https://www.theguardian.com/society...ent-of-truth-over-tax-pledges-economists-warn

We always knew it existed after the Tories found a billion to bribe the DUP in the midst of austerity

 

[Is it PotG?]

We always knew it existed after the Tories found a billion to bribe the DUP in the midst of austerity

Blimey, whataboutery of the highest order.

Labour are in power now fyi.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Blimey, whataboutery of the highest order.

Labour are in power now fyi.

You said Labour found it, I’m just saying it was found ages ago.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Labour are in power now fyi.

Yes, and don’t we know it!

 

[BBassic]

I miss the Bear Pit

 

[HeaviestTed]

I’m not very impressed with “the …is worse than we thought” talk, first it was prisons and now defence.

Isn’t that the point of an effective opposition? To hold the government to account?

Why didn’t the shadow cabinet know?

 

[Is it PotG?]

I’m not very impressed with “the …is worse than we thought” talk, first it was prisons and now defence.

Isn’t that the point of an effective opposition? To hold the government to account?

Why didn’t the shadow cabinet know?

They did know, they had access to data.

This is the build-up to 'sorry, it's really bad so we have to go back on our promises and up taxes'

 

[HeaviestTed]

They did know, they had access to data.

This is the build-up to 'sorry, it's really bad so we have to go back on our promises and up taxes'

Ooof

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m not very impressed with “the …is worse than we thought” talk, first it was prisons and now defence.

Isn’t that the point of an effective opposition? To hold the government to account?

Why didn’t the shadow cabinet know?

You don't see all the details till you own them.

 

[Is it PotG?]

You don't see all the details till you own them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m not very impressed with “the …is worse than we thought” talk, first it was prisons and now defence.

Isn’t that the point of an effective opposition? To hold the government to account?

Why didn’t the shadow cabinet know?

To add, when the departing Labour treasury juniors left a note for the Tories saying 'there's no money left', why did the Tories announce that they had just discovered that Labour had tanked the economy? Surely, if the current skeptical comments about Labour's narrative are fair, the Tories must have known all the details before "call me" Dave and his pal Gideon took office?

Desperate Tories trying to spin a tiny amount of fluff into a wooly jumper. Knit away folks, knit away.

 

[Southern Scouse]

It’s all part of the game, all parties do it. As a Labour supporter with the majority we have I don’t think it’s necessary to keep on about it though. You don’t need politicians to tell us it’s bad just look around.
I believe things will get better and hope the independent 5.5% public workers increase will be announced shortly.

 

[borat]

You consistently present only one side of the issue and a highly simplified one at that so forgive me for saying that you don’t seem to be quite as familiar with the situation as you claim - This complicated topic is also impossible to properly debate in the confines of 3 or 4 sentence posts, so any response to your titbit version of the Israel/Gaza conflict ends up being a TLDR which no one wants to read on a thread about a range of unrelated topics (which I think you are banking on so your posts go unchallenged)

Your attacks on the Labour Party and Keir Starmer are, to put it kindly, myopic:

• Starmer has already restored funding to UNRWA, (which Sunak suspended) breaking from US policy on the issue of Gaza for the first time in this conflict (and risking angering pro-Israel lobbies)
• Called for an immediate ceasefire
• Has put the Government in the centre of any talks to try and establish a 2 State solution
• Promised to apply international law “without fear or favour” - again, a departure from Sunak’s Government and the US who started a challenge against the ICJ ruling that Netanyahu was a war criminal.

Highly selective googling by those with a far left agenda to use as propaganda against the Labour Party is neither constructive imo, nor reflective of the reality of the situation for several reasons:

The bilateral links between the British establishment and Israel run deep - they have done so since the inception of the State of Israel in 1948 and were reenforced on 21 March 2023 under the Sunak Government with a newly signed bilateral agreement with Israel - see link below.

I would suggest you do some background reading (the document below would be a good start) to get a more realistic understanding of the relationship that Britain has with Israel and why it is in the interest of the UK and Palestinians to maintain those links with Israel as it provides not only bilateral security in the region vis a vis Iran but is a channel for the UK to have (hopefully a growing) influence on Israel in improving the future for the Palestinian people.

2030 roadmap for UK-Israel bilateral relations

www.gov.uk

You also might want to look at the Tory Party’s equivalent to the Labour Friends of Israel

Conservative Friends of Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You completely missed the point and the post I was replying to (and managed new levels of condescension at the same time) - I wasn't relitigating the whole conflict but simply outlining the significant influence of Israel in the Labour Party. Its anti-democratic and is one reason why the UK will support Israel unconditionally when it matters despite its decades of horrendous actions. We continue to sell weapons to Israel.

Any foreign influence to this degree in UK politics should concern anyone regardless of your political persuasion. Labelling someone hard left for opposing war crimes and Apartheid is just lazy and an easy slur.

The Desmond Tutu quote seems appropriate ''If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor''

One aspect that @chickens has correct is that ultimately the US holds the influence in the conflict.

I havent mentioned CFI as this is a Labour thread but as you mentioned it, its the same/an even greater issue

Alan Duncan ex Tory who revealed what actually goes on. Its frightening.



Will leave it there

 

[aolstudios]

You completely missed the point and the post I was replying to (and managed new levels of condescension at the same time) - I wasn't relitigating the whole conflict but simply outlining the significant influence of Israel in the Labour Party. Its anti-democratic and is one reason why the UK will support Israel unconditionally when it matters despite its decades of horrendous actions. We continue to sell weapons to Israel.

Any foreign influence to this degree in UK politics should concern anyone regardless of your political persuasion. Labelling someone hard left for opposing war crimes and Apartheid is just lazy and an easy slur.

The Desmond Tutu quote seems appropriate ''If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor''

One aspect that @chickens has correct is that ultimately the US holds the influence in the conflict.

I havent mentioned CFI as this is a Labour thread but as you mentioned it, its the same/an even greater issue

Alan Duncan ex Tory who revealed what actually goes on. Its frightening.



Will leave it there

Have you *ever* made a post that wasn't about Jews/Israel?
Seriously

 

[Thunder Bolt]

To add, when the departing Labour treasury juniors left a note for the Tories saying 'there's no money left', why did the Tories announce that they had just discovered that Labour had tanked the economy? Surely, if the current skeptical comments about Labour's narrative are fair, the Tories must have known all the details before "call me" Dave and his pal Gideon took office?

Desperate Tories trying to spin a tiny amount of fluff into a wooly jumper. Knit away folks, knit away.

 

[Eeyore]

You only have to go back to the PPE scandal in Covid.