[Politics] The Labour Government

[Zeberdi]

You completely missed the point and the post I was replying to (and managed new levels of condescension at the same time) - I wasn't relitigating the whole conflict but simply outlining the significant influence of Israel in the Labour Party. Its anti-democratic and is one reason why the UK will support Israel unconditionally when it matters despite its decades of horrendous actions. We continue to sell weapons to Israel.

Any foreign influence to this degree in UK politics should concern anyone regardless of your political persuasion. Labelling someone hard left for opposing war crimes and Apartheid is just lazy and an easy slur.

The Desmond Tutu quote seems appropriate ''If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor''

One aspect that @chickens has correct is that ultimately the US holds the influence in the conflict.

I havent mentioned CFI as this is a Labour thread but as you mentioned it, its the same/an even greater issue

Alan Duncan ex Tory who revealed what actually goes on. Its frightening.



Will leave it there

No - I didn’t - it just wasn’t a point I was responding to.

Again as always you present a one-sided POV of the conflict and while I don’t disagree with your characterisation of what is happening in Gaza from the prospective of Gazans, it IS a one-sided assessment of the issues concerned. And as far as the US is concerned, there are signs under this new Labour Government that we are departing from doggedly following the US in our approach on several key areas that I mentioned above and which you failed to note.

You are also misreading the room here imo so sorry if you feel my post was condescending’, put the tone of it down to the exasperation that the same posters are making this thread all about a one-sided POV about Gaza when there is a perfectly good thread ( until it became ultra polarised) that provides a platform for that.

I find your accusation that I have ‘chosen the side of the oppressor’ patronising and offensive tbf - I have constantly pointed out the extremism on both sides of this conflict. I have consistently and repeatedly raised awareness of the humanitarian suffering of the Palestinian people and in fact was one of the first ones to do so on NSC but your failure to acknowledge the nuances and complexities of the Israel/Palestine question is exactly why I have disengaged from discussing this with you and others on the Israel thread.

I didn’t call you ‘hard left’ for opposing war crimes - we all oppose war crimes and apartheid - again, I was one of the first on NSC to call the system of oppression being forced on the Palestinian people akin to ‘apartheid’ and I have repeatedly highlighted Netanyahu’s record on both of these aspects. I was heavily criticised by those on the Israel thread recently for daring to express happiness for the Israeli hostages that were found alive - you are so blinded by your hatred of Israel, you don’t have room for any humanitarian compassion for innocent Israelis caught up in this conflict. I have been accused in recent days of condoning genocide because I helped elect a Labour Government by several of you posting on the Israel thread, alongside your accusations that Starmer and the Labour Party leadership are responsible or have control over what Netanyahu is doing in Gaza - that is an accusation that aligns itself with the hard left.

What we can agree on is as far as this thread is concerned, it is better to leave it there and consign the ongoing Gaza debate to the appropriate thread..

As I said at the outset - it is hard to have any kind of constructive discussion with people who’s starting point is to accuse anyone supporting the Labour Government as condoning genocide and ‘being on the side of the oppressor’.

That’s not the way to ‘win friends and influence people’.*

*Nor is the length of this post so apologies to everyone else for the TL;DR

 

[JBizzle]

An excuse can also be a truth, depending on your agenda.

"You slapped my kid!"
"I did, but he's a pain in the ass"

It's different to the previous approach of:

"You slapped my kid"
"No I didn't"
"I just watched you do it"
"Nope"
"But I'm right here, my kid is crying. I just watched you slap him"
"I think you find that it was a migrant"
"No. I saw YOU do it"
"Well even if I did, Labour didn't stop me"

Excuse, truth, at least we're getting quicker answers on things

 

[borat]

Have you *ever* made a post that wasn't about Jews/Israel?
Seriously

Ah the regular antisemitism wielder is here conflating Jews and Israel - antisemitic in itself.

3 non political posts on Saturday if you must know. It just so happens the UKs complicity in Gaza provokes me to post more than other topics.

I hope one day to someday able to contribute to the debate as much as you do to - amounts to non stop posting of laughing emojis on every comment.

 

[armchairclubber]

Have you *ever* made a post that wasn't about Jews/Israel?
Seriously

Though I'm not sure how relevant it is on a Labour Government thread:

If you take a short scroll through Borats posting history (hope you don't mind @borat ) you'll soon find, on page 1 as it stands, a posting on Brajan Gruda.

I've done some looking into the ancestry of Brajan Gruda and there is some interesting history.

His ancestry traces to the Albanian Gruda tribe of Northern Albania.

I think it's unlikely that he has any Jewish ancestry and I can see no Israeli connection myself, though you may like to research some more.

 

[borat]

No - I didn’t - it just wasn’t a point I was responding to.

Again as always you present a one-sided POV of the conflict and while I don’t disagree with your characterisation of what is happening in Gaza from the prospective of Gazans, it IS a one-sided assessment of the issues concerned. And as far as the US is concerned, there are signs under this new Labour Government that we are departing from doggedly following the US in our approach on several key areas that I mentioned above and which you failed to note.

You are also misreading the room here imo so sorry if you feel my post was condescending’, put the tone of it down to the exasperation that the same posters are making this thread all about a one-sided POV about Gaza when there is a perfectly good thread ( until it became ultra polarised) that provides a platform for that.

I find your accusation that I have ‘chosen the side of the oppressor’ patronising and offensive tbf - I have constantly pointed out the extremism on both sides of this conflict. I have consistently and repeatedly raised awareness of the humanitarian suffering of the Palestinian people and in fact was one of the first ones to do so on NSC but your failure to acknowledge the nuances and complexities of the Israel/Palestine question is exactly why I have disengaged from discussing this with you and others on the Israel thread.

I didn’t call you ‘hard left’ for opposing war crimes - we all oppose war crimes and apartheid - again, I was one of the first on NSC to call the system of oppression being forced on the Palestinian people akin to ‘apartheid’ and I have repeatedly highlighted Netanyahu’s record on both of these aspects. I was heavily criticised by you and others recently for daring to feel happy for the Israeli hostages that were found alive - you are so blinded by your hatred of Israel, you don’t have room for any humanitarian compassion for innocent Israelis caught up in this conflict. I have been accused in recent days of condoning genocide because I helped elect a Labour Government by several of you posting on the Israel thread, alongside your accusations that Starmer and the Labour Party leadership are responsible or have control over what Netanyahu is doing in Gaza - that is an accusation that aligns itself with the hard left.

What we can agree on is as far as this thread is concerned, it is better to leave it there and consign the ongoing Gaza debate to the appropriate thread..

As I said at the outset - it is hard to have any kind of constructive discussion with people who’s starting point is to accuse anyone supporting the Labour Government as condoning genocide and ‘being on the side of the oppressor’.

That’s not the way to ‘win friends and influence people’

Think you have me confused with someone else as I havent criticised you for being happy the hostages are alive and have full compassion for all innocent victims. Pretending Labour are not on the side of the oppressor and are some neutral arbiter in this situation is just fantasy. The steps they have made are positive but they should still be continue to be held to account as the party in power.

Will leave it there. Have a good day.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Are the return agreements in place yet for the likes of Syria, Iran and Afghanistan for any unsuccessful applicants?

We might need a few more hotels pronto if not.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are the return agreements in place yet for the likes of Syria, Iran and Afghanistan for any unsuccessful applicants?

What makes you think applicants from those three countries would be unsuccessful?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Are the return agreements in place yet for the likes of Syria, Iran and Afghanistan for any unsuccessful applicants?

Wouldn’t it be easier to look it up for yourself?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Wouldn’t it be easier to look it up for yourself?

I don't know where to look.

 

[Is it PotG?]

What makes you think applicants from those three countries would be unsuccessful?

Read it again, slowly.

FOR ANY UNSUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Read it again, slowly.

FOR ANY UNSUCCESSFUL APPLICANTS.

I know what I said. Why do you think any asylum seeker from those countries would be UNSUCCESSFUL?

 

[Is it PotG?]

I know what I said. Why do you think any asylum seeker from those countries would be UNSUCCESSFUL?

I don't believe any nation has a 100% acceptance rate, unless you can prove me wrong.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't know where to look.

We don't have return agreements with Syria, Iran or Afghanistan as they are not safe to return people to, and also their complex, shifting authoritarian governments make reaching any kind of agreement problematic anyway.

 

[Is it PotG?]

We don't have return agreements with Syria, Iran or Afghanistan as they are not safe to return people to, and also their complex, shifting authoritarian governments make reaching any kind of agreement problematic anyway.

Any idea what will happen to any unsuccessful applicants from these nations?

 

[aolstudios]

Ah the regular antisemitism wielder is here conflating Jews and Israel - antisemitic in itself.

3 non political posts on Saturday if you must know. It just so happens the UKs complicity in Gaza provokes me to post more than other topics.

I hope one day to someday able to contribute to the debate as much as you do to - amounts to non stop posting of laughing emojis on every comment.

Bull.
Shit

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't believe any nation has a 100% acceptance rate, unless you can prove me wrong.

I asked you the question but you’ve deflected it. Why would an asylum seeker be unsuccessful naming those three countries?
You nominated those countries so you must know.

 

[stewart12]

Any idea what will happen to any unsuccessful applicants from these nations?

they'd need to apply elsewhere surely

 

[Is it PotG?]

I asked you the question but you’ve deflected it. Why would an asylum seeker be unsuccessful naming those three countries?
You nominated those countries so you must know.

I do. 100% of applicants will sadly not be successful, from any nation. Some other nations we DO have return agreements with, hence the question.

I DO hope that clarifies matters.

 

[Is it PotG?]

they'd need to apply elsewhere surely

If they refuse, we'll need to place them in hotels.

 

[Bob!]

If they refuse, we'll need to place them in hotels.

Surely they are already in Hotels, along with the thousands of other asylum seekers that the previous government neglected to assess?