[Politics] The Labour Government

[rogersix]

But it's largely incomprehensible??!!

that's his shtick

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I always appreciate people using the wrong "there/their/they're" when doing a comedy simpleton parody.

@Right Brain Ronnie is also prone to a your instead you’re.

 

[rogersix]

Is he on @Harry Wilson's tackle ignore list yet?

i'm not sure he's twigged yet...............

 

[Eeyore]

So the only comparison we will have is in the action, we will have to see who is the worse government for making our streets unsafe, we will have a very good idea after labours term. I know where I will put my money if Starmer stays top dog.

Starmer insisted that Biden was moving at pace and detail, but Biden called Harris, Trump and Zelenskyy, Putin!

We have to question Keirs judgement or whether he is just blatantly lying.

Whatever it is it's certainly worrying having him in control of our country, wouldn't you say?

It's still his honeymoon, I have no doubt his mask will drop time and time again, but happy to be proved wrong.

Did you feel the same about Boris Johnson ?

 

[jonny.rainbow]

OK. I'll give it a go (but I'll try to stay on-topic reference the proposed early release).

For many years those serving prison time for non-violent offences (and sometimes violent offences) are told by judges that they will be eligible for release after they serve 50% of their sentence. You can read the judges sentencing remarks here for all cases going back years.

Judgments Archive - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary

www.judiciary.uk

14 years of Tory incompetence has resulted in new prisons not being built. We now have more prisoners than we have space for those sentenced to imprisonment. So if we have the prisons filled up with those serving sentences for criminal damage, motoring offences, fraud etc we will eventually have nowhere to bang up the murderers, rapists, terrorists and nonces.

Labour has no choice other than to reduce the minimum prison time from 50% to 40% - because surely that is better than having to have the aforementioned murderers, rapists, terrorists and nonces on the streets?

Do I like the idea? Absolutely not. Can I see any other short-term "fix"? No I can't.

Do I have concerns. Yes, I do. The Probation Service has been crippled by lack of investment after 14 years of Tory incompetence so I worry about what support the additional early releasers will get with housing, jobs/training, mental health, and general, overall supervision.

What is a "violent offence"? Someone banged up for persistent drink-driving or for stalking / harrassment haven't committed a "violent crime" but that certainly doesn't mean that they may not be extremely dangerous if they continue their offending after being released early. It is inevitable that eventually a 40% early releaser will go to commit a very serious crime.

I've answered your questions so please do me the courtesy of answering just two of mine.

1) Why didn't the Tories see this coming?

2) If we had a Sunak government today, what would he be doing to redress the problem?

Flying them to Rwanda?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Perhaps bang up less people in prison.
Many of those inside have chronic addictions and society as a whole would be better served if we had proper rehab facilities for them instead of locking them up without any thought given to try and rehabilitate them.

As with so many things in life, getting to - and dealing with - the root of the problem is too difficult. So they take the easy option and just make it go away.

And then you end up with a shitshow like this one!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Perhaps bang up less people in prison.
Many of those inside have chronic addictions and society as a whole would be better served if we had proper rehab facilities for them instead of locking them up without any thought given to try and rehabilitate them.

Hopefully Timpson will make a difference. And hats off to Starmer for entrusting the prison service to someone who is “evidence based” as opposed to anything else.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

OK. I'll give it a go (but I'll try to stay on-topic reference the proposed early release).

For many years those serving prison time for non-violent offences (and sometimes violent offences) are told by judges that they will be eligible for release after they serve 50% of their sentence. You can read the judges sentencing remarks here for all cases going back years.

Judgments Archive - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary

www.judiciary.uk

14 years of Tory incompetence has resulted in new prisons not being built. We now have more prisoners than we have space for those sentenced to imprisonment. So if we have the prisons filled up with those serving sentences for criminal damage, motoring offences, fraud etc we will eventually have nowhere to bang up the murderers, rapists, terrorists and nonces.



Do I have concerns. Yes, I do. The Probation Service has been crippled by lack of investment after 14 years of Tory incompetence so I worry about what support the additional early releasers will get with housing, jobs/training, mental health, and general, overall supervision.

What is a "violent offence"? Someone banged up for persistent drink-driving or for stalking / harrassment haven't committed a "violent crime" but that certainly doesn't mean that they may not be extremely dangerous if they continue their offending after being released early. It is inevitable that eventually a 40% early releaser will go to commit a very serious crime.

I've answered your questions so please do me the courtesy of answering just two of mine.

1) Why didn't the Tories see this coming?

2) If we had a Sunak government today, what would he be doing to redress the problem?

The Tories privatised the Probation Service in 2014. I remember it clearly because a friend of mine lost her job in the reorganisation. It was done by Chris Grayling which tells you all you need to know.
It was taken back into public hands in 2021, and still isn't completely sorted out.

Probation services return to public control in England and Wales

Seven years after then Justice Secretary Chris Grayling's changes, the system is reverting back.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ron Manager]

Half of Sir Keir Starmer’s Cabinet opposed planning proposals in their own constituencies, according to The Telegraph, prompting accusations of hypocrisy over Labour’s house-building policy.

Angela Rayner, the Deputy Prime Minister and Housing Secretary, Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, and David Lammy, the Foreign Secretary, are among key members of Sir Keir’s top team who complained to councils over new homes.

The Housing Secretary is among 13 out of 24 in Sir Keir’s top team to have criticised their local authority over proposed new property developments during the last two Parliaments.

As well as Ms Rayner, Ms Reeves, and Mr Lammy, Darren Jones, Hilary Benn, Jo Stevens, Lisa Nandy, Liz Kendall, Pat McFadden, Peter Kyle, Steve Reed, Wes Streeting and Yvette Cooper have all voiced objections.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

I’ve just read back on your posts to this thread - nearly all attacking Labour and the PM with one liners without much engagement in the actual discussion of the issues (or maybe deliberately trolling the thread?). I’m not defending anyone accusing people of having multiple accounts etc but perhaps dial back the anti-Starmer rhetoric a bit and give the Government a chance to actually implement some change.

I don’t think they are doing too bad so far - clearly the prisons are in crisis, housing is in crisis, the NHS is in crisis - it’s not going to improve overnight or maybe not in the next 12-18 months - this is like buying a house then not realising until you actually move in what a mess the previous occupants left and how many things don’t actually work properly or are broken.

Attacking is a strong word, but you could say there has been an attack on my political views and worse still a discrimination against my clearly stated dyslexia. I will repeat again for the trolls in particular (not you) some words I use may not be the best words to use, I try to express my point in a clear to the point manner, as to write an essay would be like asking an obese person to run a marathon, it's a tough ask, the main difference is they will get applauded all the way.
Dyslexia is tough going on a board like this at every step as I am constantly decoding people's point, i may read it wrong I may not even get the context that people are using, i just maybe not read the room right.
But if it's a clear and short I can engage more, most won't do that, your post are way to long so I may not engage with them and if I do I may not engage all points because they need to be clear to me.
This doesn't mean I am avoiding anything it just means I am okay for the short sprint and not the marathon, I also get multiple post to reply to, again this is like being asked to run more marathons back to back, I may pick and chose the post that suit my dyslexia.

The foolish posters will love to overload a right brain person, just to make their penises grow an inch, they wish!

This is not an excuse as you are happy to fact check it.

Here are something a dyslexic person will out perform in, you may wish to understand?

Looking for work - British Dyslexia Association

For some people, dyslexia can present a serious obstacle to finding a job. A bad experience in education may have left you lacking in confidence and…

www.bdadyslexia.org.uk

I will always be looking at subjects as the whole thing in colour and detail and getting the big picture and my summary so far is Keir Starmer is a weak leader, that will get controlled by the far left, bringing down our economy, I understand most on here won't be able to visualise that far ahead, some people have this inner vision, like him or loathe him Farage is light years ahead in forward thinking of most MPs, he gets on things so early they are out of most peoples actual radar.

That was to get us back on topic!

The clear message I wish to leave on this board is:

There is no place for discrimination.

Ps I have just run a double marathon I'm off to have an iced bath for my brain!

 

[rogersix]

Attacking is a strong word, but you could say there has been an attack on my political views and worse still a discrimination against my clearly stated dyslexia. I will repeat again for the trolls in particular (not you) some words I use may not be the best words to use, I try to express my point in a clear to the point manner, as to write an essay would be like asking an obese person to run a marathon, it's a tough ask, the main difference is they will get applauded all the way.
Dyslexia is tough going on a board like this at every step as I am constantly decoding people's point, i may read it wrong I may not even get the context that people are using, i just maybe not read the room right.
But if it's a clear and short I can engage more, most won't do that, your post are way to long so I may not engage with them and if I do I may not engage all points because they need to be clear to me.
This doesn't mean I am avoiding anything it just means I am okay for the short sprint and not the marathon, I also get multiple post to reply to, again this is like being asked to run more marathons back to back, I may pick and chose the post that suit my dyslexia.

The foolish posters will love to overload a right brain person, just to make their penises grow an inch, they wish!

This is not an excuse as you are happy to fact check it.

Here are something a dyslexic person will out perform in, you may wish to understand?

Looking for work - British Dyslexia Association

For some people, dyslexia can present a serious obstacle to finding a job. A bad experience in education may have left you lacking in confidence and…

www.bdadyslexia.org.uk

I will always be looking at subjects as the whole thing in colour and detail and getting the big picture and my summary so far is Keir Starmer is a weak leader, that will get controlled by the far left, bringing down our economy, I understand most on here won't be able to visualise that far ahead, some people have this inner vision, like him or loathe him Farage is light years ahead in forward thinking of most MPs, he gets on things so early they are out of most peoples actual radar.

That was to get us back on topic!

The clear message I wish to leave on this board is:

There is no place for discrimination.

Ps I have just run a double marathon I'm off to have an iced bath for my brain!

have you got any evidence to validate your opinions?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Half of Sir Keir Starmer’s Cabinet opposed planning proposals in their own constituencies, according to The Telegraph, prompting accusations of hypocrisy over Labour’s house-building policy.

Angela Rayner, the Deputy Prime Minister and Housing Secretary, Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, and David Lammy, the Foreign Secretary, are among key members of Sir Keir’s top team who complained to councils over new homes.

The Housing Secretary is among 13 out of 24 in Sir Keir’s top team to have criticised their local authority over proposed new property developments during the last two Parliaments.

As well as Ms Rayner, Ms Reeves, and Mr Lammy, Darren Jones, Hilary Benn, Jo Stevens, Lisa Nandy, Liz Kendall, Pat McFadden, Peter Kyle, Steve Reed, Wes Streeting and Yvette Cooper have all voiced objections.

View attachment 185567

I’m not sure anyone is endorsing just building the new homes anywhere you like.

It’s not hypocrisy to have a policy to build new housing but objecting to some housing planning applications. One is a general national policy, the other is a specific planning application. It’s conflating 2 things to try to make one seem contradictory to the other when they are not.

 

[Zeberdi]

…you could say there has been an attack on my political views and worse still a discrimination against my clearly stated dyslexia.

Being harshly called to task for one’s political views is par for the course on internet forums I am afraid - people get very passionate about these things but you also jumped into this thread shooting from the hip too tbh so probably wound a few people up.

I don’t think there’s been any obvious discrimination towards you however - (people mock/correct people’s language and grammar all the time - NSC loves a pedant ). It may feel like you are being discriminated against but you just need to find a way to participate that works for you and if that’s not working for others, find a way of living with the criticism. Everyone has different approaches whether they are neurodivergent (as I am) or not.

…my summary so far is Keir Starmer is a weak leader, that will get controlled by the far left, bringing down our economy, I understand most on here won't be able to visualise that far ahead, some people have this inner vision, like him or loathe him Farage is light years ahead in forward thinking of most MPs, he gets on things so early they are out of most peoples actual radar.That was to get us back on topic!

Back on topic, I don’t think Starmer is ‘weak’ in the sense you suggest. The far left of the Party, ie Dianne Abbott, Clive Lewis MP, and the other Corbynites have been firmly reigned in under his leadership and I suspect Starmer will have no problem in withdrawing the Whip from any member who causes trouble from the backbenches (there is always a way). Whatever the left of the Party do, they will have little impact economic policy imo since they are not Cabinet members.

If there is a recognisable zeitgeist in British politics at the moment, it has been typified by the centre of the political spectrum shifting right. The Labour Party is more right wing than it has ever been in its history as was the last government under the Tories. The idea therefore that there is going to be an uprising of the far left is risible imo - Labour getting elected was just the pendulum resetting itself more towards the centre in the way that any shift to one extreme or another in British politics self-rights itself periodically as do the two mainstream parties with their own members.

I would also dispute Farage is ‘forward thinking’ in his manifesto pledges - his economic policy ideas are just a more right wing variation of pre-80s laissez-faire conservatism and his overriding ideology is egocentrism, the oldest ideology known to humanity.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I’m not sure anyone is endorsing just building the new homes anywhere you like.

It’s not hypocrisy to have a policy to build new housing but objecting to some housing planning applications. One is a general national policy, the other is a specific planning application. It’s conflating 2 things to try to make one seem contradictory to the other when they are not.

Building on Green Belt helps no one.
Each planning application has to be looked at separately rather than blanket disapproval.

It was a Labour Environment Secretary who gave us the go ahead for the Amex.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Those NIMBYs who moan about new housing developments should be given the choice between new homes or a solar farm/wind turbines.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Those NIMBYs who moan about new housing developments should be given both new homes and a solar farm/wind turbines.

FFY…

 

[Zeberdi]

Those NIMBYs who moan about new housing developments should be given the choice between new homes or a solar farm/wind turbines.

Or renting out their spare room to someone who is homeless

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Or renting out their spare room to someone who is homeless

The problem with that is the Tories would say Labour are going to impose a 50% spare room tax.

 

[beorhthelm]

I’m not sure anyone is endorsing just building the new homes anywhere you like.

It’s not hypocrisy to have a policy to build new housing but objecting to some housing planning applications. One is a general national policy, the other is a specific planning application. It’s conflating 2 things to try to make one seem contradictory to the other when they are not.

for many decades national policy is to to build things, local policy is to object and say it must be build elsewhere. example, there are wind turbines approved off the Norfolk coast, not being built because no locals want pylons across the land. Labour will have to cut through this, with approval for infrastructure and large building developments, at cost of local votes.

 

[BLOCK F]

Regardless of whether or not one regards those Labour MPs who objected to various planning applications as hypocrites or not, the fact remains that the Government will come up against strong NImbyist lobbies here, there and everywhere, and if my local knowledge is anything like correct, certainly in my neck of the woods around Chichester and Bognor Regis. Much of the so called Green Belt is pretty ordinary land and is, correctly I believe, now classed as Grey Belt. We need more housing, end of story. The problem is that over zealous objections have rather blurred the cause of the justified objections and have caused unnecessary hold ups to building projects. Sir Keir and his troops will have to take on the Nimby lobby right from the off if they are to achieve their aim of building 300,000 houses a year, and more power to their elbow.
Perhaps a not so gentle reminder that almost all our houses were built on what was once a green field may be required.