[Politics] The Labour Government

[Herr Tubthumper]

Fair enough.

I wasn't specifically 'defending' the government - just pointing out it's a long-term thing rather than something new. The government(s), of all hues, are ultimately to blame for not reigning in spending like this over time.

Still shocking that a leather folder can cost almost £600. I'm a bit of a pen/stationary nerd - but even I wouldn't dream of paying that sort of amount!

I had a look online, they’re really lovely folders.

 

[Zeberdi]

Three of those I can totally understand.

A helicopter in a Jeremy beadle style sketch lifted the car and perched the car in the tree.
The horse is a pantomime horse.
The cat had been drinking.
Nope the third one is unexplainable.

Or …alternatively

The helicopter is the state of the military after years of ‘rushed through spending cuts and bad decisions’
The horse is on the fence and can’t decide if he is a Tory or Reform UK supporter
The Cat is Larry of course, after 49 days of living with Liz Truss
The third one …meh on the environment which is really plssing me off but otherwise a decent enough occupant for the time being, especially if you consider the alternatives.

 

[Peteinblack]

Sums up the Public Sector - it's not their money - so they don't give a ****

I'm guessing you've never worked in the public sector, where cost-cutting, and having to justify ever pound spent, is a normal, every-day, activity.

In the NHS hospital where Mrs Peteinblack works, a key nurse recently left an already chronically understaffed clinic, but the nurse in charge of that department had to submit 3 separate 'business cases' (entailing hours of complex paperwork and stats - not what medical staff should be doing anyway) to plead for a replacement on a lower grade and salary.

Meanwhile, in the university where I work, we can no longer afford to provide complimentary coffee-and-biscuits at Open Days, for parents who may have driven their 'children' 100s of miles. And in the men's toilet in my building, a hot water tap has not worked for 4 months, but has not been repaired because hot water is not deemed essential and so not financially justifiable to mend from a 'business case' perspective, so we make do with cold water permanently. Oh, and I now buy my own stationery (whiteboard pens, staples, batteries, etc), because spending on these items has been cut back or scrapped altogether.

Trivial examples, for sure, but symbolic of the state of the public sector, and the opposite of your insulting (doubtless intentionally) claim.

The default response of public sector senior managers to any and every request for money is 'No, nor necessary, or not available'.

Whenever I see or hear anyone moaning about profligate public services, cushy public sector jobs-for-life, and gold-plated pensions, I automatically think "Ah, someone who is either ignorant about life in the public sector after years of austerity, or someone who is maliciously peddling lazy stereotypes derived from their own politically-motivated hatred of the public sector."

Parts of the private sector have hardly been exemplars of high-quality service and value-for-money in recent years - do you complain about them, or would that be unacceptable to you for political reasons - 'public sector bad, private sector good'? And before you retort "But people aren't footing the bill for shoddy private sector services", of course they are, as consumers; every time they pay their water/gas bills, buy train fares, or pay to use Royal Mail to send a parcel, they are paying for the poor service, and funding the often obscene dividends paid to shareholders who seem to expect these annual pay-outs as an automatic entitlement, regardless of performance.

 

[darkwolf666]

I'm taking some satisfaction from the process. It's nice to see a problem identified, analysed, a reasonable course of action agreed, the meetings held with foreign governments and the laws changed.

And it's not just about results, it's also about avoiding huge unnecessary costs , i.e. £700million on a Rwandan gimmick.

I tend to steer away from political “conversations” on here, as generally they are too polarising, pushing people into their cliques, be they left, right or just outright racist.

Having said that, I do find it weird that people can get so obsessed over relatively small amounts of money being spent, on what, as it transpires are security cleared items. Yet would quite happily see £ millions of waste on vanity projects to appease the right, in a failed attempt to buy an election win.

As someone once said, about football, “it’s a funny old game”…

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I'm guessing you've never worked in the public sector, where cost-cutting, and having to justify ever pound spent, is a normal, every-day, activity.

In the NHS hospital where Mrs Peteinblack works, a key nurse recently left an already chronically understaffed clinic, but the nurse in charge of that department had to submit 3 separate 'business cases' (entailing hours of complex paperwork and stats - not what medical staff should be doing anyway) to plead for a replacement on a lower grade and salary.

Meanwhile, in the university where I work, we can no longer afford to provide complimentary coffee-and-biscuits at Open Days, for parents who may have driven their 'children' 100s of miles. And in the men's toilet in my building, a hot water tap has not worked for 4 months, but has not been repaired because hot water is not deemed essential and so not financially justifiable to mend from a 'business case' perspective, so we make do with cold water permanently. Oh, and I now buy my own stationery (whiteboard pens, staples, batteries, etc), because spending on these items has been cut back or scrapped altogether.

Trivial examples, for sure, but symbolic of the state of the public sector, and the opposite of your insulting (doubtless intentionally) claim.

The default response of public sector senior managers to any and every request for money is 'No, nor necessary, or not available'.

Whenever I see or hear anyone moaning about profligate public services, cushy public sector jobs-for-life, and gold-plated pensions, I automatically think "Ah, someone who is either ignorant about life in the public sector after years of austerity, or someone who is maliciously peddling lazy stereotypes derived from their own politically-motivated hatred of the public sector."

Parts of the private sector have hardly been exemplars of high-quality service and value-for-money in recent years - do you complain about them, or would that be unacceptable to you for political reasons - 'public sector bad, private sector good'? And before you retort "But people aren't footing the bill for shoddy private sector services", of course they are, as consumers; every time they pay their water/gas bills, buy train fares, or pay to use Royal Mail to send a parcel, they are paying for the poor service, and funding the often obscene dividends paid to shareholders who seem to expect these annual pay-outs as an automatic entitlement, regardless of performance.

Haven't got time this morning to post full reply but very quickly:

My wife works in the NHS and has done for the last 10 years.

Before that she worked for a local authority for 15 years.

So I have plenty of knowledge of how the public sector works thank you.

Just one quick example is sickness, and how (in both organisations) staff are ill for the 'allowed time' (sometimes up to 3 months or more) then come back to work for a period of time, before disappearing 'ill again' Clearly playing the system - they wouldn't get away with in the private sector.

No hatred of the public sector from me - well run public services are vital - just want value for money, something that from my wife's 25 year experince of working in the public sector clearly doesn't happen.

Have you ever run a business where you have to make money to pay staff wages /pensions etc?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Oh I do love a condescending reply.

So it's FirstGroup placing the order then who run a number of different franchises who are all going to be nationalised and then rely on open access services ? Hmm sounds legit. I wonder how much is being paid by UK Gov.

But thankyou for being so kind googling for me.

I do love when someone has to explain something, in ever simpler terms, until the penny finally drops.

And then gets accused of being condescending

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My wife works in the NHS and has done for the last 10 years.

Before that she worked for a local authority for 15 years.

So I have plenty of knowledge of how the public sector works thank you.

You have a view through the lens of just your wife you mean?

 

[Bodian]

I'm guessing you've never worked in the public sector, where cost-cutting, and having to justify ever pound spent, is a normal, every-day, activity.

In the NHS hospital where Mrs Peteinblack works, a key nurse recently left an already chronically understaffed clinic, but the nurse in charge of that department had to submit 3 separate 'business cases' (entailing hours of complex paperwork and stats - not what medical staff should be doing anyway) to plead for a replacement on a lower grade and salary.

Meanwhile, in the university where I work, we can no longer afford to provide complimentary coffee-and-biscuits at Open Days, for parents who may have driven their 'children' 100s of miles. And in the men's toilet in my building, a hot water tap has not worked for 4 months, but has not been repaired because hot water is not deemed essential and so not financially justifiable to mend from a 'business case' perspective, so we make do with cold water permanently. Oh, and I now buy my own stationery (whiteboard pens, staples, batteries, etc), because spending on these items has been cut back or scrapped altogether.

Trivial examples, for sure, but symbolic of the state of the public sector, and the opposite of your insulting (doubtless intentionally) claim.

The default response of public sector senior managers to any and every request for money is 'No, nor necessary, or not available'.

Whenever I see or hear anyone moaning about profligate public services, cushy public sector jobs-for-life, and gold-plated pensions, I automatically think "Ah, someone who is either ignorant about life in the public sector after years of austerity, or someone who is maliciously peddling lazy stereotypes derived from their own politically-motivated hatred of the public sector."

Parts of the private sector have hardly been exemplars of high-quality service and value-for-money in recent years - do you complain about them, or would that be unacceptable to you for political reasons - 'public sector bad, private sector good'? And before you retort "But people aren't footing the bill for shoddy private sector services", of course they are, as consumers; every time they pay their water/gas bills, buy train fares, or pay to use Royal Mail to send a parcel, they are paying for the poor service, and funding the often obscene dividends paid to shareholders who seem to expect these annual pay-outs as an automatic entitlement, regardless of performance.

Top post - thank you.

The bit about having to fill in business cases just to replace a member of staff on the establishment resonates with me especially.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I'm guessing you've never worked in the public sector, where cost-cutting, and having to justify ever pound spent, is a normal, every-day, activity.

In the NHS hospital where Mrs Peteinblack works, a key nurse recently left an already chronically understaffed clinic, but the nurse in charge of that department had to submit 3 separate 'business cases' (entailing hours of complex paperwork and stats - not what medical staff should be doing anyway) to plead for a replacement on a lower grade and salary.

Meanwhile, in the university where I work, we can no longer afford to provide complimentary coffee-and-biscuits at Open Days, for parents who may have driven their 'children' 100s of miles. And in the men's toilet in my building, a hot water tap has not worked for 4 months, but has not been repaired because hot water is not deemed essential and so not financially justifiable to mend from a 'business case' perspective, so we make do with cold water permanently. Oh, and I now buy my own stationery (whiteboard pens, staples, batteries, etc), because spending on these items has been cut back or scrapped altogether.

Trivial examples, for sure, but symbolic of the state of the public sector, and the opposite of your insulting (doubtless intentionally) claim.

The default response of public sector senior managers to any and every request for money is 'No, nor necessary, or not available'.

Whenever I see or hear anyone moaning about profligate public services, cushy public sector jobs-for-life, and gold-plated pensions, I automatically think "Ah, someone who is either ignorant about life in the public sector after years of austerity, or someone who is maliciously peddling lazy stereotypes derived from their own politically-motivated hatred of the public sector."

Parts of the private sector have hardly been exemplars of high-quality service and value-for-money in recent years - do you complain about them, or would that be unacceptable to you for political reasons - 'public sector bad, private sector good'? And before you retort "But people aren't footing the bill for shoddy private sector services", of course they are, as consumers; every time they pay their water/gas bills, buy train fares, or pay to use Royal Mail to send a parcel, they are paying for the poor service, and funding the often obscene dividends paid to shareholders who seem to expect these annual pay-outs as an automatic entitlement, regardless of performance.

Good post. Are universities seen as public or private? I thought most were charities which perhaps haven't been helped recently.

 

[BBassic]

Just one quick example is sickness, and how (in both organisations) staff are ill for the 'allowed time' (sometimes up to 3 months or more) then come back to work for a period of time, before disappearing 'ill again' Clearly playing the system - they wouldn't get away with in the private sector.

People absolutely do get away with this in the private sector.

However I'd be hesitant to label all people with long term sickness as "playing the system", irrespective of which sector they work in.

 

[BLOCK F]

Well, having briefly read through the few posts on waste/ineffficiency in the public sector, I am now happily convinced that there is no waste in the sector and us tax payers are all getting value for money and a jolly good service as well.
Yippee!

 

[nevergoagain]

I do love when someone has to explain something, in ever simpler terms, until the penny finally drops.

And then gets accused of being condescending

Condescending for telling someone to google something for the answer - yes. Copying text from a web page isn't really explaining something even in simple terms is it. But still you keep on being you comrade and keep posting those emojis.

 

[Is it PotG?]

UNITE not happy bunnies

Time to match the Junior Doctors Shirley.

 

[Hugo Rune]

People absolutely do get away with this in the private sector.

However I'd be hesitant to label all people with long term sickness as "playing the system", irrespective of which sector they work in.

Indeed.

From my experience, the vast majority of the public sector play by ACAS rules and take the least risk option in order to avoid an employment tribunal because ‘it is not their money’ if things go wrong. At a recent seminar I attended, I heard about a school playing out £800k over constructive dismissal of a neurodiverse person (who had no official diagnosis). It’s a minefield.

In the private sector, you can gamble and bin people off if you are prepared (as the owner or board) to take the risks. Some companies will simply hope the person they have treated unfairly does not have the wit, patience or agency to fight back.

I get the impression that those who work in the public sector are a lot more likely to go to employment tribunal if they are dismissed unfairly for things such as continued absence.

 

[portslade seagull]

Haven't got time this morning to post full reply but very quickly:

My wife works in the NHS and has done for the last 10 years.

Before that she worked for a local authority for 15 years.

So I have plenty of knowledge of how the public sector works thank you.

Just one quick example is sickness, and how (in both organisations) staff are ill for the 'allowed time' (sometimes up to 3 months or more) then come back to work for a period of time, before disappearing 'ill again' Clearly playing the system - they wouldn't get away with in the private sector.

No hatred of the public sector from me - well run public services are vital - just want value for money, something that from my wife's 25 year experince of working in the public sector clearly doesn't happen.

Have you ever run a business where you have to make money to pay staff wages /pensions etc?

Agree with this.
My sister works in the NHS and just complains that management levels just keep increasing whilst the numbers at the sharp end stay flatlined.
My Brother in law was very high up in the Sussex NHS trust on £800 a day and he said exactly the Same thing and said they could lose layers of management and it would not have any detrimental effect as other management who were in his words twiddling their thumbs could take up the slack. He was being headhunted by the Southwest NHS trust and others who were offering more money but got out because the NHS again in his words are corrupt at the top

 

[Bodian]

Condescending for telling someone to google something for the answer - yes. Copying text from a web page isn't really explaining something even in simple terms is it. But still you keep on being you comrade and keep posting those emojis.

You didn't exactly ask for a detailed analytical explanation of a difficult concept.

You simply asked "What does a £500m deal mean ?. Hitachi promising to spend it on building new trains ?, our government spending that on a new contract to build the trains ?" - factual questions.

It took me a couple of minutes to look on google and provide you with simple factual answers to those factual questions. I deliberately copied the text so there was no spin or misinterpretation from me. My point about google was that you could have done this yourself if you were wanting to know, rather the posting questions on here and expecting others to do it for you.

 

[abc]

The hugely generalised condemnation of public sector workers on here is unfortunate. I am sure there are good and bad examples of profligacy, service provision and 'caring' in both the public and private sectors. Furthermore, the public sector is vast and covers so many different professions and jobs that generalisation is meaningless and unfair..

My own experience is in private sector business and 9 times out of 10, issues 'on the floor' start 'from above' as a result of poor decision making, an inability to recognise when working conditions or expectations become demotivating, or simply those 'in control' either not caring or simply being incompetent. I don't think public sector workers such as nurses, junior doctors and teachers come into this category but Ministers, MPs (of all colours) and NHS executives too often do.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Happy Christmas, keep warm

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

There’s a lot of “I know a guy who worked in the public sector once and I’m using that as the justification for my own ignorant opinion” posts on here.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Just one quick example is sickness, and how (in both organisations) staff are ill for the 'allowed time' (sometimes up to 3 months or more) then come back to work for a period of time, before disappearing 'ill again' Clearly playing the system - they wouldn't get away with in the private sector.

How little you know. Have you ever worked in the private sector?