[Politics] The Labour Government

[abc]

Budget thread is decent because budget is decent.

Unless you own a small business, or work in one, in which case it is a terrible budget

 

[A1X]

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

I must admit, I find this a slightly strange one to triumph in the way you have.

Not because it's not good news - any rise in the National Minimum Wage clearly is - but because it's primarily an apolitical move.

Governments are advised on what to where to set NMW levels by the Low Pay Commission, which is politically independent, and I'm not sure a single government has ever not followed the LPC's recommendations.

If I were the kind to vote for a pig with a red rosette, what I would really be shouting about is Labour's change of remit to the LPC to, in time, remove the disparity in NMW for those 18-20. There really is no good reason why someone who is 20, capable of contributing just as much as a 21-year-old, should be paid less. This is a really positive move from this Labour government.

Finally, just for my own interest, do you recall posting on here to praise the last government for uplifts in NMW?

View attachment 191484

Yep working class party, my arse.
3% less, while boosting the public sector incomes by millions or is it billions, 9.4Billion I believe and without a quibble.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm sure she does - and I think the budget was a good one - I'd actually have increased fuel duty to pay for keeping the £2 bus fare, more attention to social care,- but I think my point stands when it comes to experience in business/start ups.

Personally, I don’t feel direct experience of running a business is overly important in the role of chancellor. What’s important is a deep understanding of economics and fiscal policy with an understanding of how policy can influence outcome….which she has in spades and which was demonstrated today.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

One thing that shows how governments in general miss the point. She says that she will appoint thousands of new house planning officers to help build new homes. doesn't she realise that housing planning officers function is to stop house building? She would get far better results by sacking thousands of planning officers and making them concentrate on only the most egregious.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The rumoured increase in CGT is a growth killer. I meet SME business owners on a daily basis. In the last few weeks they have been universally appalled by what the Government are saying and very fearful for their future. They feel they are being attacked on all fronts. Many have run their business for 20-30 years, employing people, generating PAYE/NI/VAT for the government, paying corporation tax. A lot of them have sacrificed everything including their own take home money to grow their business in the knowledge they were growing their asset and the tax benefits of selling this asset are currently favourable - it encourages them to grow the business and reinvest in the business. As it seems that the favourable CGT landscape is about to change they feel totally betrayed. Their business is their pension.

There is also an additional point here. Surveys show that business owners that sell their business go on to start a new business often with the same success. If they are taxed more that means less available funds for new business start ups. A circle that again spirals into less growth. I really don't think the Government have thought this through and I fear unemployment will rise as a result.

Additionally the increase in ERs NI will hit the employees and potentially result in increased unemployment. The SME owners may take this hit themselves, or look to reduce costs elsewhere, less staff wages, or increase prices. None of that is great. However the real impact will be seen by the big corporates. They have to maintain profit levels, that's in built in the plc and private equity model. As a result they have to either cut costs to pay for the extra Ers NI burden or increase prices. The former leads to wage deflation or more unemployment, the latter to increased inflation. Neither is good.

“I really don't think the Government have thought this through and I fear unemployment will rise as a result.”

I’m pretty confident both they and the OBR have thought this through.

 

[The Clamp]

House goblin Sunak, whimpering from the sidelines

“You broke your promises”

Silence!

Now, go and see if your wife needs anything doing in the kitchen before she gets home from the office.

Good girl.

 

[jcdenton08]

House goblin Sunak, whimpering from the sidelines

“You broke your promises”

Silence!

Now, go and see if your wife needs anything doing in the kitchen before she gets home from the office.

Good girl.

He’s busy representing the lollipop guild, the lollipop guild, the lollipop guild

 

[abc]

It is clear now that this is an anti business government. Full employment rights given on day one, inflation busting increases in the minimum wage, increased emp NI, etc make great headlines and the negative impacts will take time to filter through.

However, many businesses will go out of business, whilst the remainder will either reduce wages, reduce numbers employed and/or increase investment in labour saving technology. Perhaps the most obvious sign of Starmer’s contempt is how people who work their balls off starting and running SMEs, often remortgaging their homes many times, are not working people.

To quote someone on here, I was happy (ecstatic in fact) with the election result. I am equally appalled by the direction of travel that we are now on.

 

[Is it PotG?]

A shambles, and a total gamble.

 

[Biscuit]

I've no real issue with the tax rises, it was inevitable and I think any sensible Chancellor would have had to do the same. What does scare me is the extra borrowing.

I'd much rather we were paying down our national debt than increasing it. Our annual spend on debt interest is about the same as we spend on Education. That's terrifying.

 

[Bold Seagull]

A shambles, and a total gamble.

I remember the days when you could announce a budget, wipe £60bn off pension funds, triple interest rates overnight, and have the markets reaching for the toilet paper.

Then the budgets where you could just hide billions from the OBR so they didn’t report how bad it was. Miss those days.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I remember the days when you could announce a budget, wipe £60bn off pension funds, triple interest rates overnight, and have the markets reaching for the toilet paper.

Then the budgets where you could just hide billions from the OBR so they didn’t report how bad it was. Miss those days.

You obviously know more than the respected City retail analyst I was at the game with last evening.
Whilst I accept the 'shambles' is my input, he clearly feels that this IS a big gamble costing small businesses and only time will tell if it pays off.
Still, I'm sure you know better.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You obviously know more than the respected City retail analyst I was at the game with last evening.
Whilst I accept the 'shambles' is my input, he clearly feels that this IS a big gamble costing small businesses and only time will tell if it pays off.
Still, I'm sure you know better.

Budgets always rely on an element of growth forecasting - in that respect every budget gambles on what the economy will do.

Clearly you’ve heard a take at a football match then extrapolated that in your own unique way - and I’m the one who knows better even though I wasn’t making a definitive comment on it either way.

 

[sparkie]

For me the budget was better than expected. The VAT on school fees was the equivalent of a 4K pay cut which is a lot of avocados to cut back on. I suppose I break even if I drink 4,600 pints a week though.

But my biggest fear was a slashing of the Inheritance tax allowances which could have had utterly dire consequences ( worst case ) for me at some point. So it was nice that worry has been taken away until 2030.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Budgets always rely on an element of growth forecasting - in that respect every budget gambles on what the economy will do.

Clearly you’ve heard a take at a football match then extrapolated that in your own unique way - and I’m the one who knows better even though I wasn’t making a definitive comment on it either way.

I didn't 'extrapolate' anything, the chat we had over dinner emphasised the unnecessary risk element.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It is clear now that this is an anti business government. Full employment rights given on day one, inflation busting increases in the minimum wage, increased emp NI, etc make great headlines and the negative impacts will take time to filter through.

However, many businesses will go out of business, whilst the remainder will either reduce wages, reduce numbers employed and/or increase investment in labour saving technology. Perhaps the most obvious sign of Starmer’s contempt is how people who work their balls off starting and running SMEs, often remortgaging their homes many times, are not working people.

To quote someone on here, I was happy (ecstatic in fact) with the election result. I am equally appalled by the direction of travel that we are now on.

You are talking about a country which voted for Brexit, which wipes billions off the GDP each month, weakened the pound, pretty much stopped foreign investment in it's tracks, made thousands of business close, relocate or endure additional red-tape or foriegn businesses simply not bother with the UK, has led to sectors having roles which they now cannot fill. If I had to point an 'anti-business' finger at anyone it would not be RR it would be the people who voted to leave.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You are talking about a country which voted for Brexit, which wipes billions off the GDP each month, weakened the pound, pretty much stopped foreign investment in it's tracks, made thousands of business close, relocate or endure additional red-tape or foriegn businesses simply not bother with the UK, has led to sectors having roles which they now cannot fill. If I had to point an 'anti-business' finger at anyone it would not be RR it would be the people who voted to leave.

I remember people saying ‘back Britain’ and all that, and yet a budget that does actually back Britain, one that can invest in schools, healthcare, transport, one that backs itself that businesses want to be here, that value the talent and business they can do here, and one that backs us to catch up with other countries already investing in themselves.

Cuts and austerity and leaving the EU was never a believe in Britain set of policies. Quite the opposite. The Chancellor by contrast is backing Britain to invest and to grow.

In the private sector successful companies invest in their buildings, their infrastructure, their staff. They’re not happy to be in delapidated property, with ageing infrastructure and lack of investment - which is what people seem to think the country should be operated on.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I remember people saying ‘back Britain’ and all that, and yet a budget that does actually back Britain, one that can invest in schools, healthcare, transport, one that backs itself that businesses want to be here, that value the talent and business they can do here, and one that backs us to catch up with other countries already investing in themselves.

Cuts and austerity and leaving the EU was never a believe in Britain set of policies. Quite the opposite. The Chancellor by contrast is backing Britain to invest and to grow.

In the private sector successful companies invest in their buildings, their infrastructure, their staff. They’re not happy to be in delapidated property, with ageing infrastructure and lack of investment - which is what people seem to think the country should be operated on.

Qiite. PwC have been releasing some interesting articles recently. There is an article about what businesses need in a country to thrive; tax is just one consideration. A key one was stability: political, economic and other. The UK has absolutely failed on the stability front over the past few years what with the ludicrous number of PMs, chancellors, the ever changing trading envoronment with Brexit. The simple act of stability alone will ensure some growth.

 

[abc]

You are talking about a country which voted for Brexit, which wipes billions off the GDP each month, weakened the pound, pretty much stopped foreign investment in it's tracks, made thousands of business close, relocate or endure additional red-tape or foriegn businesses simply not bother with the UK, has led to sectors having roles which they now cannot fill. If I had to point an 'anti-business' finger at anyone it would not be RR it would be the people who voted to leave.

Can’t argue with that!