The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[mikeyjh]

Can you answer my question on which IHRA you disagree with yet?

HKFC answered quite succinctly, I felt no need to answer specifically. Quite easy for you to infer what I think.

 

[mikeyjh]

I am not going to explain this for the umpteenth time on here because clearly people such as yourself have your fingers in your ears. I would suggest you do some research on the 19th century origins of your nice little conspiracy theory about Jewish influence on the media and government. When you have done your research, have a think about how the Nazis developed these ideas. I have been as nice as it is possible to be when reading the same old anti Jewish propaganda. I presume that your view is not dissimilar to the one taken by the Labour leadership which is the reason they are held in such contempt both by many Jewish people and by anyone aware of the events that have led to multiple genocides over the last thousand years.

Sigh - And clearly you aren't listening. Israel and prominent Jewish groups should be open to criticism, these definitions are clearly an attempt to stifle that criticism.

Your attempt to patronise is typical, 19th century origins on 20th century events have little relevance to 21st century thinking. carry on trying to close the debate if you like, it won't work.

 

[seagulls4ever]

The Labour party has formally complained to the press regulator Ipso about the coverage by several British newspapers of Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to lay a wreath at a cemetery in Tunisia.

In its complaint, the party said the Sun, the Times, the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Express and Metro had misrepresented the event, which the Labour leader attended in 2014.

The press regulator has acknowledged the complaint and said it will consider taking the case further, raising the prospect that it could attempt to rule on the definitive chain of events surrounding Corbyn’s visit to the cemetery.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-regulator-over-coverage-of-cemetery-visit

 

[Jim D]

The Labour party has formally complained to the press regulator Ipso about the coverage by several British newspapers of Jeremy Corbyn’s decision to lay a wreath at a cemetery in Tunisia.

In its complaint, the party said the Sun, the Times, the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Express and Metro had misrepresented the event, which the Labour leader attended in 2014.

The press regulator has acknowledged the complaint and said it will consider taking the case further, raising the prospect that it could attempt to rule on the definitive chain of events surrounding Corbyn’s visit to the cemetery.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-regulator-over-coverage-of-cemetery-visit

While the outcome of this investigation and ruling may result in JC being completely cleared it will not clear up the main concern of the Jewish community - that the Labour party is anti semitic. This has already resulted in defeats for several Labour candidates as the Jewish vote has either switched or abstained. This won't change until Labour does and I just can't see it happening under Corbyn/Momentum.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Sigh - And clearly you aren't listening. Israel and prominent Jewish groups should be open to criticism, these definitions are clearly an attempt to stifle that criticism.

Your attempt to patronise is typical, 19th century origins on 20th century events have little relevance to 21st century thinking. carry on trying to close the debate if you like, it won't work.

ok, you have no desire to research the origins of your lovely conspiracy theory. That's fine.
I don't want to stifle any debate, fill your boots..I just think you have demonstrated the reason that many Jewish people feel safer in their own state than they would living in Western Europe.

 

[clapham_gull]

I believe it's really important you have MPs like Corbyn who buck the status quo, break bread with the "enemy" and take the abuse when they get attacked by the (usually) right wing press.

They inevitably expose the hypocrisy of the government in power at the time years later who have been found to have discussions behind closed doors.

However, they are not leadership material. You don't make a tricky winger captain.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well, for a start in 2013 Jeremy Corbyn was awarded the Gandhi Foundation International Peace Award for his efforts to bring about a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland. So there's that.

And you are aware that he also met plenty of Loyalists too in his campaign for peace, right?

Corbyn met with Gary McMichael and David Ervine (Ervine was a jailed loyalist terrorist turned politician for the PUP), and he also spoke regularly with Ian Paisley who, according to his widow Eileen, considered Corbyn to be "likeable", "courteous", "polite" and "a gentleman".

In light of the indisputable fact that Ian Paisley was a fierce opponent of Irish republicanism, why on earth would he say such things about a guy, who according to you, was undermining the loyalist cause by promoting a peaceful solution to the conflict?

If all this is true (and why should I doubt it?) then maybe it is time to rethink the 'Corbyn supports the IRA' bollocks. I say 'bollocks'. It appers to be bollocks.....

I see no responses to my other post about the 'Irish Problem' either.

Are there any actual anti Islam anti Catholic anti Socialism intellects on here willing to put forward any sort of defence of their doctrine? I meam, expel, intern or kill the enemey? Comeon, show yourselves!

I am beginning to suspect the racist right are no mouth or trousers. I suspect they may not actually even exists, and that our English right are actually quite considered and sensible. The right on this board (barring the twerps I have on ignore) are perfectly fine.

So why the frothy-mouthed hysteria about silly old Corbyn? Surely he's a problem for labour rather than the right? He certianly annoys old centre left remoanery me.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I believe it's really important you have MPs like Corbyn who buck the status quo, break bread with the "enemy" and take the abuse when they get attacked by the (usually) right wing press.

They inevitably expose the hypocrisy of the government in power at the time years later who have been found to have discussions behind closed doors.

However, they are not leadership material. You don't make a tricky winger captain.

This. Sadly.

 

[Albumen]

He's managed to ride this latest 'please forget about the racist Boris Johnson' journalism wave too. Looks like he's here to stay.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

He's managed to ride this latest 'please forget about the racist Boris Johnson' journalism wave too. Looks like he's here to stay.

I don't disagree. I'm coming to the view that the problem is not JC but rather his supporters.

 

[ken tiler]

I keep asking this of people alleging that the labour party has an anti semitism 'problem' , to what 'problem' are you referring - can you give me specific examples of members of the labour party who have been anti-semitic (and not just anonymous trolls and tweets that could be from anyone) ?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I keep asking this of people alleging that the labour party has an anti semitism 'problem' , to what 'problem' are you referring - can you give me specific examples of members of the labour party who have been anti-semitic (and not just anonymous trolls and tweets that could be from anyone) ?

Here's one for you;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...accused-of-colluding-with-media-a7111061.html

I also seem to remember a list of anti scemitic incidents in the Labour Party leading to investigations of members. I think this was posted by [MENTION=21064]easy[/MENTION]10. Perhaps I have the wrong poster ?
A Brighton Momentum poster on this board also mentioned having to report an anti scemitic comment made by a Brighton Labour party member.
Anyway, simply repeating your question and ignoring the evidence will not solve the problem.

 

[ken tiler]

Here's one for you;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...accused-of-colluding-with-media-a7111061.html

I also seem to remember a list of anti scemitic incidents in the Labour Party leading to investigations of members. I think this was posted by [MENTION=21064]easy[/MENTION]10. Perhaps I have the wrong poster ?
A Brighton Momentum poster on this board also mentioned having to report an anti scemitic comment made by a Brighton Labour party member.
Anyway, simply repeating your question and ignoring the evidence will not solve the problem.

I didnt ignore any evidence as no one provided any.

The first example from the Independent you gave was of Mark Wordsworth, a leading black anti racist campaigner who helped Doreen and Neville Lawrence set up the Justice for Stephen Lawrence campaign. He has been suspended from the Labour Part, but not for anti semitism. He criticised the MP Ruth Smee for colluding with the right wing press - he didnt know she was Jewish, and he made no anti-semitic remarks.

As the Chakrabarti report was concerned not only with anti-semitism but all types of racism within the party, his comments, as a leading anti racist, were largely about the lack of black faces in the audience.

There are a currently in comparison to the membership of the labour party who are under suspension for alleged anti semitism out of a membership of 600,000. Of course, if given a fair hearing, and if found guilty of genuine antisemitism they derserve to be expelled.

Also, in 2015, 2016 and 2017, the Campaign Against Antisemitism commissioned YouGov to carry out a survey into British attitudes towards Jews which found that Labour Party supporters were less likely to hold antisemitic views than supporters of the Conservative Party or the UK Independence Party (UKIP), and Liberal Democrats supporters were the least likely to hold antisemitic views. 32% of Labour supporters endorsed at least one antisemitic attitude, compared to 30% of Liberal Democrat supporters, 39% of UKIP supporters, and 40% of Conservative supporters.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I didnt ignore any evidence as no one provided any.

The first example from the Independent you gave was of Mark Wordsworth, a leading black anti racist campaigner who helped Doreen and Neville Lawrence set up the Justice for Stephen Lawrence campaign. He has been suspended from the Labour Part, but not for anti semitism. He criticised the MP Ruth Smee for colluding with the right wing press - he didnt know she was Jewish, and he made no anti-semitic remarks.

As the Chakrabarti report was concerned not only with anti-semitism but all types of racism within the party, his comments, as a leading anti racist, were largely about the lack of black faces in the audience.

There are a currently in comparison to the membership of the labour party who are under suspension for alleged anti semitism out of a membership of 600,000. Of course, if given a fair hearing, and if found guilty of genuine antisemitism they derserve to be expelled.

Also, in 2015, 2016 and 2017, the Campaign Against Antisemitism commissioned YouGov to carry out a survey into British attitudes towards Jews which found that Labour Party supporters were less likely to hold antisemitic views than supporters of the Conservative Party or the UK Independence Party (UKIP), and Liberal Democrats supporters were the least likely to hold antisemitic views. 32% of Labour supporters endorsed at least one antisemitic attitude, compared to 30% of Liberal Democrat supporters, 39% of UKIP supporters, and 40% of Conservative supporters.

Media conspiracy theories have been used for hundreds of years as a way of stereotyping Jewish people. I would wager he would have been a lot more careful with his language had the MP been of a different ethnicity. I believe it is called 'dog whistling' and there is another example in the last few pages of this thread.When you talk about 'genuine antiscemitism' I wonder if you too are excluding anti scemitism of this type that creates a climate of fear amongst Jewish people. I may be wrong.
Imagine though that you were black and living in 1960s Britain. One day you open your newspaper and read Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech, full of conspiracy theories about black people. That is why this language cannot be ignored.
As to your figures from across the parties I'm not sure I care. I expect some discriminatory elements in the Tory Party. I hold the Labour Party to higher values.

 

[Bolton va va]

Well, for a start in 2013 Jeremy Corbyn was awarded the Gandhi Foundation International Peace Award for his efforts to bring about a peaceful solution to the conflict in Northern Ireland. So there's that.

And you are aware that he also met plenty of Loyalists too in his campaign for peace, right?

Corbyn met with Gary McMichael and David Ervine (Ervine was a jailed loyalist terrorist turned politician for the PUP), and he also spoke regularly with Ian Paisley who, according to his widow Eileen, considered Corbyn to be "likeable", "courteous", "polite" and "a gentleman".

In light of the indisputable fact that Ian Paisley was a fierce opponent of Irish republicanism, why on earth would he say such things about a guy, who according to you, was undermining the loyalist cause by promoting a peaceful solution to the conflict?

When & where did Corbyn meet Gary McMichael, David Ervine and/or Ian Paisley ?

David Ervine was at the Labour Party conference in Blackpool in 1994 but there is no reference of him meeting Corbyn there.

 

[ken tiler]

Media conspiracy theories have been used for hundreds of years as a way of stereotyping Jewish people. I would wager he would have been a lot more careful with his language had the MP been of a different ethnicity. I believe it is called 'dog whistling' and there is another example in the last few pages of this thread.When you talk about 'genuine antiscemitism' I wonder if you too are excluding anti scemitism of this type that creates a climate of fear amongst Jewish people. I may be wrong.
Imagine though that you were black and living in 1960s Britain. One day you open your newspaper and read Enoch Powell's Rivers of Blood speech, full of conspiracy theories about black people. That is why this language cannot be ignored.
As to your figures from across the parties I'm not sure I care. I expect some discriminatory elements in the Tory Party. I hold the Labour Party to higher values.

Mark didnt know what the ethnic back-ground of the MP was but was rather concerned that as a labour MP, she was feeding information to an avowadly right-wing newspaper, the Telegraph. Can you give me an example of the sort of antisemitic language which is along the lines of Enoch Powell`s rivers of blood speech being expressed by a member of the Labour Party. If you can I will personally report them for disciplinary action.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Mark didnt know what the ethnic back-ground of the MP was but was rather concerned that as a labour MP, she was feeding information to an avowadly right-wing newspaper, the Telegraph. Can you give me an example of the sort of antisemitic language which is along the lines of Enoch Powell`s rivers of blood speech being expressed by a member of the Labour Party. If you can I will personally report them for disciplinary action.

I sense that you won't accept any answer I give. However my answer is any repetition of conspiracy theories about Jewish people. Just like conspiracy theories about other ethnic minorities. Fear is fear and these stories have been used to stereotype for a long time. Perhaps you could start with your friend Mark. I know you won't though.

 

[ken tiler]

I sense that you won't accept any answer I give. However my answer is any repetition of conspiracy theories about Jewish people. Just like conspiracy theories about other ethnic minorities. Fear is fear and these stories have been used to stereotype for a long time. Perhaps you could start with your friend Mark. I know you won't though.

Sorry Im baffled - what conspiracy theory are you talking about?

 

[Wardy's twin]

This thread is being hijacked by a lot of subplots. The original thread was a comment on Corbyn's ability to get Labour elected at the next election. Nothing has changed for the better, he still carries around baggage regards the IRA and the various Palestinian groups, even if he is not 'guilty' he has shown very poor judgement. He has shown similar poor judgement regards the nuclear deterrence (MAD has actually worked for the first world countries).

His followers think anyone with centralist ideas is a Tory and should leave the party, leaving what a small rump of left wing idealists who can mount no opposition to the real Tories. I

 

[ken tiler]

This thread is being hijacked by a lot of subplots. The original thread was a comment on Corbyn's ability to get Labour elected at the next election. Nothing has changed for the better, he still carries around baggage regards the IRA and the various Palestinian groups, even if he is not 'guilty' he has shown very poor judgement. He has shown similar poor judgement regards the nuclear deterrence (MAD has actually worked for the first world countries).

His followers think anyone with centralist ideas is a Tory and should leave the party, leaving what a small rump of left wing idealists who can mount no opposition to the real Tories. I

Small rump? are you just talking about the MPs, or the members of the party who overwhelmingly back Corbyn. Indeed, some of the MPs probably should be in another party. The policies advocated by the Labour party in its last manifesto were in no way extremely left-wing by historical standards. Somewhat to the right of Harold Macmillan in fact.