The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[synavm]

The problem I have with Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters isn't so much principle, it's the approaches he intends to take to put those values into practice. For example, one of the core elements of his rallies is to promote workers rights. That is certainly a worthy thing to speak about, but how often do you hear him offer up ways to create (and keep) jobs in the first place?

Unfortunately, one man is not going to change the globalised economy, so you need to find ways to ensure a good standard of ethics that works within the system. My concern is that his approach could actually cause more poverty and injustice and that is the very thing that Corbyn supporters get wrong about us people that aren't so fond of him. We're critical of him because we agree with his very values and are very concerned that he'd actually make things worse, not because we somehow want to see more poverty and inequality.

I do certainly get the attraction of Corbyn, but I've always been a bit of a pragmatic lefty, and currently, pragmatism is out of vogue.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Aside from the thread hijackers here, many particularly on the left don't have a problem with what he says, the issue is with what he does. Speeches are supposed to be a rallying cry and a call to action. There is no action, it is like the man looks at the world through his Islingon letterbox. Yes it would be lovely if poverty and bombs went away, I couldn't agree more, but placards don't feed the needy or stop bullets.

Full public funding of the NHS
Renationlisation of the railways
Abolition of zero hours contracts
An end to school academies
Restoring arts education in schools
Building affordable housing
Returning union rights

These and more featured in his Brighton speech. He is putting together an alternative view on how things could be done. This manifesto will then be offered to the electorate. It's what oppositions do. It's the Goverment who don't feed the needy or stop the bullets.

 

[Hastings gull]

The problem I have with Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters isn't so much principle, it's the approaches he intends to take to put those values into practice. For example, one of the core elements of his rallies is to promote workers rights. That is certainly a worthy thing to speak about, but how often do you hear him offer up ways to create (and keep) jobs in the first place?

Unfortunately, one man is not going to change the globalised economy, so you need to find ways to ensure a good standard of ethics that works within the system. My concern is that his approach could actually cause more poverty and injustice and that is the very thing that Corbyn supporters get wrong about us people that aren't so fond of him. We're critical of him because we agree with his very values and are very concerned that he'd actually make things worse, not because we somehow want to see more poverty and inequality.

I do certainly get the attraction of Corbyn, but I've always been a bit of a pragmatic lefty, and currently, pragmatism is out of vogue.

And therein lies your problem. My best mate is also. He is a self-employed plumber who votes Labour due to his working class roots, but is very worried about the effect that Corbyn's luvvies' policies will have on him, should the rolling stone be set in motion for nationalisation. He too sees the virtues of private enterprise, coupled with care for the those less fortunate etc etc, which I assume is what you are espousing. If the former East Bloc countries are anything to go, by and extreme socialism does ever take hold, then the result will be poverty spread over a larger section of the population and a different set will be those who are, shall we say, rather more equal. Does anyone seriously think that Messrs Blair, Kinnock etc are going to willingly have their dosh taxed out of them to re-distribute to the poorer members of society?

 

[synavm]

Full public funding of the NHS
Renationlisation of the railways
Abolition of zero hours contracts
An end to school academies
Restoring arts education in schools
Building affordable housing
Returning union rights

These and more featured in his Brighton speech. He is putting together an alternative view on how things could be done. This manifesto will then be offered to the electorate. It's what oppositions do. It's the Goverment who don't feed the needy or stop the bullets.

No economic policy? Honestly, no point even thinking about all of those things without a credible strategy to grow the economy and create prospects and jobs.

Full public funding of the NHS is a good idea in principle but there are still areas than in my eyes benefit from being outsourced if it represents better value for money- cleaning and catering for example.

Renationalisation of the railways, again in theory something nice to do, though, I'd like to see them turned into co-operatives, run for the people, by the people. I'm not at all convinced just swapping one unaccountable group for another will solve the issues on the trains.

An end to academies. Personally, I see value in them in moderation but I do agree that private interest and the profit motive shouldn't have any influence on the way our state schools are governed.

Restoring arts education. Arts education in schools never really went away. I'm not quite sure what Jezza wants here and surely if there needs to be more time teaching any subjects surely it would be more PCHE? Home finances, drugs and sex education? I work in an artistic vocation but don't think schools need any more of it than they have.

Abolition of zero hour contracts was in the 2015 manifesto and I support it.

House building was also in the 2015 manifesto and I support it (though not just in terms of council housing).

Returning union rights- how far?

 

[Hastings gull]

No economic policy? Honestly, no point even thinking about all of those things without a credible strategy to grow the economy and create prospects and jobs.

Full public funding of the NHS is a good idea in principle but there are still areas than in my eyes benefit from being outsourced if it represents better value for money- cleaning and catering for example.

Renationalisation of the railways, again in theory something nice to do, though, I'd like to see them turned into co-operatives, run for the people, by the people. I'm not at all convinced just swapping one unaccountable group for another will solve the issues on the trains.

An end to academies. Personally, I see value in them in moderation but I do agree that private interest and the profit motive shouldn't have any influence on the way our state schools are governed.

Restoring arts education. Arts education in schools never really went away. I'm not quite sure what Jezza wants here and surely if there needs to be more time teaching any subjects surely it would be more PCHE? Home finances, drugs and sex education? I work in an artistic vocation but don't think schools need any more of it than they have.

Abolition of zero hour contracts was in the 2015 manifesto and I support it.

House building was also in the 2015 manifesto and I support it (though not just in terms of council housing).

Returning union rights- how far?

Agree with much of what you write here, certainly with regard to the NHS and the trains. - it is all about what is best, not what dogma tells you to think, irrespective. We are unlikely to ever solve problems totally if the first thing that politicians think of, is the degree to which it fits their bias. If a study showed overwhelming evidence that the best thing for the trains was to nationalise the lot, I am sure that the present government would bury it. Precisely the same thing would happen, if Corbyn ever get into power and a survey clearly showed that privatisation was the clue to success.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Full public funding of the NHS
Renationlisation of the railways
Abolition of zero hours contracts
An end to school academies
Restoring arts education in schools
Building affordable housing
Returning union rights

These and more featured in his Brighton speech. He is putting together an alternative view on how things could be done. This manifesto will then be offered to the electorate. It's what oppositions do. It's the Goverment who don't feed the needy or stop the bullets.

The gap lies in detailing what this means - which is not something that needs to happen right now and to put in place the working groups to deliver this strategy. Corbyn and Mcdonnell, seem incapable of this broader engagement. Whether it is with the parliamentary labour party or their economic advisers, there is no two way dialogue, no development of these policies and nothing that I can see beyond empty rhetoric.

 

[The Clamp]

must have missed that election

which far right organisation, which corporations, and which ultra wealthy individuals have seized control of Britain?
Inventing things in your head that you cant back up doest make them true

Like clockwork, the ray of sunshine. Morning, laughing boy!

 

[beorhthelm]

Full public funding of the NHS...

im curious when there was anything other than public funding of the NHS? is this an actual policy point or a mis-quote? does it mean full public provision of NHS, or is this proposing a ban on private healthcare?

 

[The Merry Prankster]

im curious when there was anything other than public funding of the NHS? is this an actual policy point or a mis-quote? does it mean full public provision of NHS, or is this proposing a ban on private healthcare?

Apologies - provision.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

The gap lies in detailing what this means - which is not something that needs to happen right now and to put in place the working groups to deliver this strategy. Corbyn and Mcdonnell, seem incapable of this broader engagement. Whether it is with the parliamentary labour party or their economic advisers, there is no two way dialogue, no development of these policies and nothing that I can see beyond empty rhetoric.

It is hard to engage with right-wing MPs and 'advisors' when they are only interested in supporting neo-liberal, pro-austerity economic policies.

 

[Hastings gull]

It is hard to engage with right-wing MPs and 'advisors' when they are only interested in supporting neo-liberal, pro-austerity economic policies.

If that is your view, then fair enough, extremely simplistic as it is undoubtedly is. But then please don't go on to claim that engaging with fervent Corbyn supporters would be any different -you are consistent in this respect, aren't you?

 

[CheeseRolls]

It is hard to engage with right-wing MPs and 'advisors' when they are only interested in supporting neo-liberal, pro-austerity economic policies.

This is a challenge for everyone. There is a commonly held belief that politics is failing and is not relevant to real people's lives and this transcends the left and the right (what else is UKIP about ?), however large parts of politics are absolutely necessary. You have to be able to communicate with people with many differing views and get them on board with the agenda. Government is for the majority, political purety is for pressure groups and Corbyn and co hold absolutely no influence over a Tory government or over the media, but if you enjoy a good rally and rousing speech, that is okay with me.

 

[beorhthelm]

It is hard to engage with right-wing MPs and 'advisors' when they are only interested in supporting neo-liberal, pro-austerity economic policies.

this is just so much empty rhetoric that proves CheeseRolls' point. everyone is an enemy.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

this is just so much empty rhetoric that proves CheeseRolls' point. everyone is an enemy.

Not everyone - just the 1% who are screwing everyone else (and their political lapdogs in the Tories and the Blairites)

This is a challenge for everyone. There is a commonly held belief that politics is failing and is not relevant to real people's lives and this transcends the left and the right (what else is UKIP about ?), however large parts of politics are absolutely necessary. You have to be able to communicate with people with many differing views and get them on board with the agenda. Government is for the majority, political purety is for pressure groups and Corbyn and co hold absolutely no influence over a Tory government or over the media, but if you enjoy a good rally and rousing speech, that is okay with me.

Making friends and influencing people - a recipe for 'more of the same'.

The ruling elites in Britain (and throughout the rest of Europe) are in full mode class warfare - dumping the cost of a crisis they created onto the backs of working class people - and then using the crisis as an excuse for a race to the bottom. Unfortunately, people are faced with two choices - bend over an take it - or - fightback and force a change in direction. There are very many issues that I would disagree with Corbyn on - but the campaign to re-elect Corbyn as leader of the LP has the potential to develop into a broad mass anti-austerity movement that will take the fight to the Tories and their political masters.

 

[Ernest]

Another WONDERFUL by election RESULT last night, the people of BRIGHTON are EMBRACING the FUTURE

 

[Buzzer]

That rockstar economist Thomas Piketty that Corbyn appointed to his panel of advisers a year back - looks like he's been completely debunked in an IMF published paper. The study says that in 19 advanced economies over 30 years, "no empirical evidence that dynamics move in the way Piketty suggests".

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/cat/longres.aspx?sk=44165.0

Admittedly, Piketty never even attended a single meeting but I recall McDonnell quoting him at length. Another member of that star panel, Danny Blanchflower, has put so much distance between himself and Corbyn that even he's now being labelled a neo-liberal (God, I hate that nonsense phrase) by the Corbyn fanboys.

 

[beorhthelm]

That rockstar economist Thomas Piketty that Corbyn appointed to his panel of advisers a year back - looks like he's been completely debunked ...

again?

 

[CheeseRolls]

Not everyone - just the 1% who are screwing everyone else (and their political lapdogs in the Tories and the Blairites)


Making friends and influencing people - a recipe for 'more of the same'.

The ruling elites in Britain (and throughout the rest of Europe) are in full mode class warfare - dumping the cost of a crisis they created onto the backs of working class people - and then using the crisis as an excuse for a race to the bottom. Unfortunately, people are faced with two choices - bend over an take it - or - fightback and force a change in direction. There are very many issues that I would disagree with Corbyn on - but the campaign to re-elect Corbyn as leader of the LP has the potential to develop into a broad mass anti-austerity movement that will take the fight to the Tories and their political masters.

Fair enough so when Corbyn's left wing revolution sweeps across Europe, I will be up against the wall with the rest of them.

 

[portslade seagull]

Fair enough so when Corbyn's left wing revolution sweeps across Europe, I will be up against the wall with the rest of them.

If Corbyn sweeps into power there won't be enough money left to buy any bullets once you're up against the wall as it would have been spunked on his personal projects

 

[jakarta]

I thought this thread needed bouncing given todays ruling that the Ten Bob Trots are going to get their Vote after all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37009871

I am more and more convinced that Corbyn is actually a Tory Mole.

Respect to a man who was willing to f*ck Diane Abbot for the Cause.