The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[Steve in Japan]

This thread is almost impossible to follow. I need to watch Newsnight now to try and catch up. I sense a new political party is about to be born. New Labour perhaps? The Euro Party? Heady days.

 

[beorhthelm]

Unlike with the SDP in 1983, I don't think there's many charismatic big hitters in the Labour Party. I remember reading about the formation of the SDP and if Roy Hattersley had joined (and he did think long and hard about it) he would have taken many others with him. I look at Eagle, Watson, Benn and I just can't see them turning their back on the party. Who's the man or woman to lead a defection?

good question, it doesnt look like one. or are they going to break cover now Eagle is started the process? though i see a soft split, the MPs ignoring the leadership getting on with constituency work and committees, either pick up the peices after 2020 or just give up.

 

[Buzzer]

good question, it doesnt look like one. or are they going to break cover now Eagle is started the process? though i see a soft split, the MPs ignoring the leadership getting on with constituency work and committees, either pick up the peices after 2020 or just give up.

I agree. 'Soft split' is a great phrase. You should claim authorship now before everyone starts using it.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Peter Kyle will be in bits tonight

Labour party will be in bits within months.

 

[Diablo]

Does anyone on here still believe Corbyn is the man to lead the Labour party

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Does anyone on here still believe Corbyn is the man to lead the Labour party

Yes.....keep up the good work....

 

[Diablo]

Yes.....keep up the good work....

In the words of John Mcenroe...You cannot be serious........

 

[Bold Seagull]

Have the Tories ever fought in such a way? Not even the last days of Thatcher, Major's Bruge Group 'b@stards' or the Heath government during the 3-day week has there been such a threat to split the party as this. I think the only near comparison would also be with Labour in the early 80s with Foot becoming leader and pushing the party leftwards, the Benn/Healey deputy leadership contest delaying a breakaway and then the formation of the SDP in 1983.

Labour have always fought on ideological grounds. The political juxtaposition of union and membership ideology against what actually gets MPs elected to parliament. The Gang of Four had profound political differences with the party and took the ultimate political step of what they believed in. Gove didn't have some ideological moment of clarity in sticking his knife into Johnson, he had personal gain in mind. Metaphorical knives of friends of potential Tory party leaders still embedded in the ending of careers of the likes of Maudling, Heath, Heseltine, Clarke, Portillo and Davis. Run by donors and moguls, the Tory party do ideology based on self interest dressed in whatever buzz word they wish to label themselves, currently 'passionate conservatism'. The split over Europe runs deep and always has done. How convenient they've been able to blame the last 6 years on the Brown created Global financial crises, and no doubt the next 4 can be blamed on Brexit. Not my problem anymore appears to be the parting gift of our PM and chancellor who led us to this moment. May's problems haven't even remotely begun. Europe is and will continue to be a divisive Tory party issue. She'll no doubt have her own Et tu Brute moment as she turns her Brexit means Brexit soundbite into a tangible policy of what that is.

I say Tory-lite, because Labour have made a laboured mess of deposing a leader. The Tories managed to remove Thatcher and have a new leader within 5 days. Now that is brutal efficiency.

 

[vegster]

They are the gift which keeps on giving. Joke party at the moment

Only since Leadson quit Monday. Amazing that she got down to the last two to be PM....utterly incredible.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

In the words of John Mcenroe...You cannot be serious........

Anything that helps the Blues...so yes

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

There will be plenty from the other parties raising a glass tonight for sure.

I think anyone with any sense would prefer a stronger opposition. Cameron said as much last week - at PMQ, I think

 

[jonny.rainbow]

After the "NEC will say that Jezzer has to find 51 supporters, and we're scared because we know he can't" conspiracy theory failed to come to fruition. Next up, comes the "we'll stop all these pesky new people joining to support him" thing:

"Only people who joined Labour before February will be able to vote in the leadership contest, BBC chief political correspondent Vicki Young says. It looks like anyone who joined after then will have to pay an extra £25 to become a "registered supporter" - and will get a two-day window in which to sign up."

And Angela Eagle's theory that the new surge of members joining the party were Labour voters disillusioned with Corbyn's leadership has similarly not borne fruit.

 

[vegster]

Labour have always fought on ideological grounds. The political juxtaposition of union and membership ideology against what actually gets MPs elected to parliament. The Gang of Four had profound political differences with the party and took the ultimate political step of what they believed in. Gove didn't have some ideological moment of clarity in sticking his knife into Johnson, he had personal gain in mind. Metaphorical knives of friends of potential Tory party leaders still embedded in the ending of careers of the likes of Maudling, Heath, Heseltine, Clarke, Portillo and Davis. Run by donors and moguls, the Tory party do ideology based on self interest dressed in whatever buzz word they wish to label themselves, currently 'passionate conservatism'. The split over Europe runs deep and always has done. How convenient they've been able to blame the last 6 years on the Brown created Global financial crises, and no doubt the next 4 can be blamed on Brexit. Not my problem anymore appears to be the parting gift of our PM and chancellor who led us to this moment. May's problems haven't even remotely begun. Europe is and will continue to be a divisive Tory party issue. She'll no doubt have her own Et tu Brute moment as she turns her Brexit means Brexit soundbite into a tangible policy of what that is.

I say Tory-lite, because Labour have made a laboured mess of deposing a leader. The Tories managed to remove Thatcher and have a new leader within 5 days. Now that is brutal efficiency.

The Tories do brutal on a regular basis but once the bloodletting is over they all pull together very quickly...virtually every MP has immediately thrown their weight behind May although some doing so with a veiled threat that she will be scrutinised for any failure to adhere to The Brexit.... Strange that she says she has legitimate power but when Gordon Brown took over from TB his premiership lacked legality according to Mrs May ?

 

[Machiavelli]

The media don't show it as it doesn't fit their narrative of how they want him to be

It's obvious that the media are anti-Labour and, even more so, anti-Corbyn. But that doesn't explain (let alone excuse) Corbyn's bizarre strategy of ignoring the mainstream media while attempting to whip up a revolution via social media.
He's strategic nous is on a par with Hyypia. And that didn't end well.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

The Tories do brutal on a regular basis but once the bloodletting is over they all pull together very quickly...virtually every MP has immediately thrown their weight behind May although some doing so with a veiled threat that she will be scrutinised for any failure to adhere to The Brexit.... Strange that she says she has legitimate power but when Gordon Brown took over from TB his premiership lacked legality according to Mrs May ?

Yes Brown was a Gentleman's agreement and he was a Scot..so yes she is correct.

 

[Bozza]

It's obvious that the media are anti-Labour and, even more so, anti-Corbyn. But that doesn't explain (let alone excuse) Corbyn's bizarre strategy of ignoring the mainstream media while attempting to whip up a revolution via social media.
He's strategic nous is on a par with Hyypia. And that didn't end well.

You're being somewhat unfair on Hyypia there. He deserves better than that comparison.

 

[Machiavelli]

You're being somewhat unfair on Hyypia there. He deserves better than that comparison.

Because he could locate a sword and know how to fall on it?

 

[beorhthelm]

It's obvious that the media are anti-Labour and, even more so, anti-Corbyn. But that doesn't explain (let alone excuse) Corbyn's bizarre strategy of ignoring the mainstream media while attempting to whip up a revolution via social media.

neither does it explain the non-right or non-mainstream media that are observing the failings of Corbyn, or reporting the intimidation that are apparently part of left wing tactics. i can only put this down to some misguided interpretation of proletariate revolution, with anyone not on the hard left cast in the role of the bourgeoisie.

 

[Buzzer]

The Tories do brutal on a regular basis but once the bloodletting is over they all pull together very quickly...virtually every MP has immediately thrown their weight behind May although some doing so with a veiled threat that she will be scrutinised for any failure to adhere to The Brexit....

In a nutshell. Part of the reason is the 1922 Committee. It's a group in the parliamentary party for which Labour has no equivalent, it's fiercely independent, hugely influential and its job is to essentially to keep Tory unity and ensure that the leader and his/her cabinet are doing their job effectively and because it's so much smaller than the Labour NEC it can act far more quickly.

Away from the leadership crisis, this happened:

"Labour failed to mount a fight last week against the £1,200 charge for employment tribunals, which has seen a 70% fall in claims. Richard Burgon, the new shadow lord chancellor, simply missed its huge significance, and with no whip the government won by an astounding 135"

That there is a huge attack on employment rights, especially for the poorest in the UK. So, whilst Ernest and the likes revel in this mess, big important stuff is going unchallenged.

 

[glasfryn]

Does anyone on here still believe Corbyn is the man to lead the Labour party

it matters not a jot what we think on here does it (I seem to remember most were remain) its the grass roots of the labour party that will be voting