The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[Audax]

looking at two local seats of Eastbourne and Lewes will show you how the voters float between Liberals and Tory. same applies to most the southern seats Liberals lost, they were Tory seats before the 90's. the sort of tactical voter who might swing to the Liberals isnt going anywhere near UKIP. another misreading is how far right the Tories have gone, with the backbenchers seeing off changes to working tax credit and ending austerity in all but name a year ago, there isnt much evidence for a lurch right, just a lack of an opposition as Labour fight amonsgt themselves.

OK, take that argument on board re: LDs / Tory swing voters. I suspect my error here is in placing too much emphasis on the LDs' history left-leaning social side of their history. I do still have some questions over the Ukip vote at the last GE, though - it surged in many regions, and I would not be surprised if that was protest-vote (and Brexit-favouring-vote) driven rather than being a true reflection of how many far-right voters there are out there.

The rightness I worry about with the Tories is only partially policy driven. It's also about how they've failed to appropriately deal with the rise of far-right parties, because their rhetoric (whether backed by policy or not) has (had) shifted to the right in an effort to stem the flow of voters (and MPs!) from Tory to Ukip. The Tories to me feel like they are actually in a very similar position to Labour at the moment, they've just handled it (publicly at least) better than Labour has. Just as Labour is currently facing a centre-left vs further-left crisis, the Tories have internal issues with centre-right vs further-right and those struggles are far from over just yet - the Brexit negotiations will continue to cause that pot to simmer.

Re: the end of Austerity in all but name - it's worth looking at the finer detail of what happened with tax credits. First, it is worth pointing out it wasn't the backbenchers who forced Osbourne the "abandon" the changes - it was the unelected Lords. Secondly, while Osbourne announced to great public fanfare that he was completely dropping them, the reality that actually happened is that he quietly kept a core of the changes in - he simply moved a few chairs around the room and pulled some wool over enough eyes to get away with it. And we of course are still under the burden of austerity policies that were already in place (such as the budget starvation of the NHS and drive to privatise it, the over-zealous clamp down on disability benefits to name a couple). For me, the Tories are still sitting further right than I would want them too.

 

[alfredmizen]

His "support" for the IRA? Really? By advocating a dialogue to stop a blood bath? A dialogue that eventually came to fruition? Re-writing history much.

Its you who is rewriting history, Corbyn actually opposed the Anglo Irish Agreement, he never had any mandate to take part in any peace talks, he didnt take part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , he claims (now) that he met the IRA to ''understand'' them , well if thats the case why didnt he meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Ill tell you why, because he was an IRA supporter, plain and simple, he Invited Gerry Adams to parliament just TWO weeks after the Brighton bomb, he stood for a minutes silence for the terrorists the SAS took out at Loughall, peace maker ?? Dont make me laugh................

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...write-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/

 

[jakarta]

Its you who is rewriting history, Corbyn actually opposed the Anglo Irish Agreement, he never had any mandate to take part in any peace talks, he didnt take part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , he claims (now) that he met the IRA to ''understand'' them , well if thats the case why didnt he meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Ill tell you why, because he was an IRA supporter, plain and simple, he Invited Gerry Adams to parliament just TWO weeks after the Brighton bomb, he stood for a minutes silence for the terrorists the SAS took out at Loughall, peace maker ?? Dont make me laugh................

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...write-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/


View attachment 78068

A Prime Minister in waiting apparently...

 

[Buzzer]

Its you who is rewriting history, Corbyn actually opposed the Anglo Irish Agreement, he never had any mandate to take part in any peace talks, he didnt take part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , he claims (now) that he met the IRA to ''understand'' them , well if thats the case why didnt he meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Ill tell you why, because he was an IRA supporter, plain and simple, he Invited Gerry Adams to parliament just TWO weeks after the Brighton bomb, he stood for a minutes silence for the terrorists the SAS took out at Loughall, peace maker ?? Dont make me laugh................

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...write-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/

And fresh off the press is news that Corbyn and McDonnell's BFF, Gerry Adams, gave the approval for the murder of a Sinn Fein informer. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37425809

God help us if a bloke who regards terrorists in the IRA and Hamas as friends ever gets to power and I don't hold much hope of there being many British Jewish people who would stick around either given the experience that Ruth Smeeth has had and Corbyn's personal response to that.

 

[alfredmizen]

And fresh off the press is news that Corbyn and McDonnell's BFF, Gerry Adams, gave the approval for the murder of a Sinn Fein informer. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37425809

God help us if a bloke who regards terrorists in the IRA and Hamas as friends ever gets to power and I don't hold much hope of there being many British Jewish people who would stick around either given the experience that Ruth Smeeth has had and Corbyn's personal response to that.

How can Gerry Adams have sanctioned a murder, he was never a member of the IRA ��

 

[Buzzer]

How can Gerry Adams have sanctioned a murder, he was never a member of the IRA ��

I know. It's a complete mystery. Lovely family those Adams: Uncle Dominic colluded with Nazis, brother Liam a child-raping nonce and good old Gerry's finest moment must be the Jean McConville murder where a Catholic mother of 10 was murdered on his say so.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Five more years of Blue,maybe even TEN. Thank-you dumbwits aka Momentum. Along with SWP/ANL and all of you.

 

[alfredmizen]

Its you who is rewriting history, Corbyn actually opposed the Anglo Irish Agreement, he never had any mandate to take part in any peace talks, he didnt take part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , he claims (now) that he met the IRA to ''understand'' them , well if thats the case why didnt he meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Ill tell you why, because he was an IRA supporter, plain and simple, he Invited Gerry Adams to parliament just TWO weeks after the Brighton bomb, he stood for a minutes silence for the terrorists the SAS took out at Loughall, peace maker ?? Dont make me laugh................

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...write-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/


View attachment 78068

Nothing to say [MENTION=25211]midnight_rendezvous[/MENTION] ?

 

[alfredmizen]

Its you who is rewriting history, Corbyn actually opposed the Anglo Irish Agreement, he never had any mandate to take part in any peace talks, he didnt take part in ANY of the peace talks that led to the good friday agreement , he claims (now) that he met the IRA to ''understand'' them , well if thats the case why didnt he meet any of the loyalist paramilitaries ? Ill tell you why, because he was an IRA supporter, plain and simple, he Invited Gerry Adams to parliament just TWO weeks after the Brighton bomb, he stood for a minutes silence for the terrorists the SAS took out at Loughall, peace maker ?? Dont make me laugh................

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/0...write-the-history-of-his-support-for-the-ira/


View attachment 78068

Just in case you missed it I'll ask again , anything to add [MENTION=25211]midnight_rendezvous[/MENTION] ?

 

[Simster]

As Alan Hansen might have said "You don't win nothing with Corbyn". MP since 1983 without ever registering on the political radar. Sooner The Labour Party split into the Mickey Mouse Momentum Party led by JC, and whatever the Green/Labour-Alliance-led-by-Caroline-Lucas wants to call itself, the sooner we'll have a credible opposition party. IMHO, like.

Time for the LIb Dems to step up to the plate and hoover up the great swathes of the country utterly put off by the scruffy champion of VI form college champagne socialists and the pig-shagging toffs in the Tory party who have probably ruined the country by forcing Brexit in a feeble effort to shore up power.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Time for the LIb Dems to step up to the plate and hoover up the great swathes of the country utterly put off by the scruffy champion of VI form college champagne socialists and the pig-shagging toffs in the Tory party who have probably ruined the country by forcing Brexit in a feeble effort to shore up power.

Good joke.

 

[Simster]

Good joke.

Really?
Since 1983, their share of the popular vote has hovered between 17% and 25% of the popular vote until 2015 when they got annihilated and ended up with under 8%.

The fact that Labour are in a total mess and living in a dream world, the fact that people are now realising they did indeed curb the worst Tory excesses, and finally the fact that they have a clear policy on the EU where they insist a vote will be needed to ratify Brexit (which will resonate strongly to at least half the population), and I won't be at all surprised to see their share of the vote rise to 16-17% and maybe back as high as 25%.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Really?
Since 1983, their share of the popular vote has hovered between 17% and 25% of the popular vote until 2015 when they got annihilated and ended up with under 8%.

The fact that Labour are in a total mess and living in a dream world, the fact that people are now realising they did indeed curb the worst Tory excesses, and finally the fact that they have a clear policy on the EU where they insist a vote will be needed to ratify Brexit (which will resonate strongly to at least half the population), and I won't be at all surprised to see their share of the vote rise to 16-17% and maybe back as high as 25%.

People won't forget the last time they had a whiff of power, do you really think they will improve their share of the vote by 17% come the next GE.

I'm sorry but that is 'dreamworld'.

 

[Simster]

People won't forget the last time they had a whiff of power, do you really think they will improve their share of the vote by 17% come the next GE.

I'm sorry but that is 'dreamworld'.

It isn't though. They have historically held between 17-25% of the vote, it is 2015 that is the outlier. They got smashed last time because they were held responsible for giving up too many principles for a share of power, but that doesn't seem such a terrible misdemeanour when you consider what Labour have done to put off all the slightly left of centre voters, nor compared to what the Tories have done in the eyes of EU-centric slightly right of centre voters.

If they campaign well, I genuinely see them making huge gains at the expense of both the main parties.

 

[Cian]

Lib Dems also have the wrong leader to capitalise on the problems - but I'm not sure who else there is. I think that Clegg could make a triumphant, Salmond-style return but it'll take some time for people to be willing to let him.

 

[Bozza]

People won't forget the last time they had a whiff of power, do you really think they will improve their share of the vote by 17% come the next GE.

I'm sorry but that is 'dreamworld'.

Do you think history will show that the Lib Dems actually did a decent job in coalition government? Left-leaners on NSC were declaring the government a car crash waiting to happen in the days and weeks immediately following the 2010 General Election, yet it held together for the full five year term with Clegg and co moderating many Tory policies for the better.

Nick Clegg was in a ridiculously difficult position and I think he did as well as anyone could. He had always struck me as a decent and honourable chap, and nothing he was involved in changed that view.

 

[Simster]

Do you think history will show that the Lib Dems actually did a decent job in coalition government? Left-leaners on NSC were declaring the government a car crash waiting to happen in the days and weeks immediately following the 2010 General Election, yet it held together for the full five year term with Clegg and co moderating many Tory policies for the better.

Nick Clegg was in a ridiculously difficult position and I think he did as well as anyone could. He had always struck me as a decent and honourable chap, and nothing he was involved in changed that view.

I wasn't impressed when he capitulated on both student loans and proportional representation, but they were punished out of all proportion for these issues. On balance, I'd definitely agree with you. Then again, my politics aren't that far from yours.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Do you think history will show that the Lib Dems actually did a decent job in coalition government? Left-leaners on NSC were declaring the government a car crash waiting to happen in the days and weeks immediately following the 2010 General Election, yet it held together for the full five year term with Clegg and co moderating many Tory policies for the better.

Nick Clegg was in a ridiculously difficult position and I think he did as well as anyone could. He had always struck me as a decent and honourable chap, and nothing he was involved in changed that view.

I would agree with that. Political tribalism prevents many people from recognizing the work done by the LDs in Government. They were in coalition and that means compromise to reflect the reality of the vote. All parties need to be prepared to go into coalition if necessary. When JC talks of a new brand of co-operative politics he forgets that Nick Clegg actually carried this out by working with the Tories to enact some of the things in which he believed.
This from someone who is definitely not a LD !

 

[ROSM]

Do you think history will show that the Lib Dems actually did a decent job in coalition government? Left-leaners on NSC were declaring the government a car crash waiting to happen in the days and weeks immediately following the 2010 General Election, yet it held together for the full five year term with Clegg and co moderating many Tory policies for the better.

Nick Clegg was in a ridiculously difficult position and I think he did as well as anyone could. He had always struck me as a decent and honourable chap, and nothing he was involved in changed that view.

I agree with this. His bendover on student loans was one his major cock up.

It's only seeing the tories now on things like education that you can see how good a job the lib dems did with moderating that

 

[Buzzer]

Since 1983, their share of the popular vote has hovered between 17% and 25% of the popular vote until 2015 when they got annihilated and ended up with under 8%.

Why stop at 1983? Between 1935 and 1983 it was more or less at current current levels and only really regained popular support thanks to the SDP.

And if you're going for abusive caricatures of other parties then it's only fair to point out that the Lib Dems positively ooze smugness and faux outrage but in reality are nothing more than charlatans ready to sell themselves to anyone in exchange for a whiff of power.