The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[Gwylan]

There is no doubting that Jeremy has divided the Labour Party and he may be unelectable as the media are predicting; however, I do sometimes wonder do the big Corporate Business' and the Media fear him being in Power because he might actually start to hold them accountable or do they fear he may take away their ''self regulations''. and make them answerable to a body outwith their control.

Damn right they do.

There is absolutely no doubt that everyone who will listen we are being told that he is unelectable and that could well be the case. The opposite could also be true. Perhaps when it comes to the lead up to an election. Perhaps his openness when it comes to putting together an Election Manifesto, who knows he might do the opposite and strike a cord with the electorate. He may not be as unelectable as people are being led to believe.

I welcome the challenge to his leadership and if he loses and I would feel we must abide by that, but if he wins then the Party other Labour MPs should get behind him or leave. I am probably in a minority of 2 with Ernest on this view so I think I will buy a tin helmet for this one.

No, make that 3. I don't think he'll win the next election as the swing needed is too great - although if Brexit goes haywire, he could do.

But, as I posted on another thread, while most elections are won from the centre, just occasionally, they're not. As I said, 1945 and 1979 were examples of elections where a radical vision succeeded. I do think that these are extraordinary times and it's the sort of situation where a radical vision could succeed again. This may be UKIP or even the Greens but it could well be a more radical Labour.

 

[beorhthelm]

There is absolutely no doubt that everyone who will listen we are being told that he is unelectable and that could well be the case. The opposite could also be true. Perhaps when it comes to the lead up to an election. Perhaps his openness when it comes to putting together an Election Manifesto, who knows he might do the opposite and strike a cord with the electorate. He may not be as unelectable as people are being led to believe.

where is the evidence of this from the past year? he's done very little to oppose and nothing to communicate to a public beyond his base. with the opportunity to reach the electorate through the referendum he was weak, neither striking out for leave or giving a clear message to remain it, just unenthused support. the general accusation against him in the party is he isnt open, he doesnt listen and shut himself away from the wider PLP.

 

[NooBHA]

where is the evidence of this from the past year? he's done very little to oppose and nothing to communicate to a public beyond his base. with the opportunity to reach the electorate through the referendum he was weak, neither striking out for leave or giving a clear message to remain it, just unenthused support. the general accusation against him in the party is he isnt open, he doesnt listen and shut himself away from the wider PLP.

Not for one minute did I suggest he has shown it to date. I merely suggested that when is comes to putting together an Election Manifesto, that is where he could actually reach the Electorate.

As for the European Union / Brexit loss. I am sad that he didn't do more to avert it; however, I am pleased that he did not get involved in making the absolute ridiculous outlandish claims that everyone else involved in it were making because some of the things the others were coming out with about it possibly causing a War and silliness like that, I am so glad he didn't run side by side with people making such claims

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Blimey there's some delusional nonsense in this thread. The two biggest groups who hope Corbyn stays as Leader are a majority within the Labour party membership and anyone who doesn't want to see a Labour government (Including the Tories, corporate Business' and many in the Media).

 

[drew]

Not for one minute did I suggest he has shown it to date. I merely suggested that when is comes to putting together an Election Manifesto, that is where he could actually reach the Electorate.

As for the European Union / Brexit loss. I am sad that he didn't do more to avert it; however, I am pleased that he did not get involved in making the absolute ridiculous outlandish claims that everyone else involved in it were making because some of the things the others were coming out with about it possibly causing a War and silliness like that, I am so glad he didn't run side by side with people making such claims

Isn't that a bit like relying on COG to be our star striker in our promotion push this season. Hasn't really shown he is up to it yet but have faith that he'll come good when it matters with no back up plan!!!!!

 

[Bold Seagull]

As for the European Union / Brexit loss. I am sad that he didn't do more to avert it; however, I am pleased that he did not get involved in making the absolute ridiculous outlandish claims that everyone else involved in it were making because some of the things the others were coming out with about it possibly causing a War and silliness like that, I am so glad he didn't run side by side with people making such claims

What annoyed me most was that he didn't seem to understand that the media and electorate need a message first or foremost. He made a really good speech about the positives of the EU; the environment, sustainability and renewable energy, workers rights, investment in deprived areas etc. but of course all that is lost once you say "I'm 7 out of 10 for the EU". That was his message ultimately, and I think what has completely frightened the PLP is that they can't go into a GE with someone who doesn't have that basic understanding of what the electorate will pick up on. He should have been in mantra mode for Environment/Workers/Investment, repeat repeat repeat. Combat the Tories negativity with a positive truthful message.

This was a real chance to put Labour onto a really positive footing, coordinate and orchestrate a consistent message. Someone like John Smith would have rallied the entire cause, and even if the result hadn't changed, would have had the party on a much greater positive position politically.

 

[carlzeiss]

Angela Eagle displaying her labour party leadership qualities on Question time .

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[DFL JCL]

I find it very odd that the Labour rule book is so ambiguous as to whether Corbyn automatically will be put on the ballot as a result of a leadership challenge.

 

[beorhthelm]

I find it very odd that the Labour rule book is so ambiguous as to whether Corbyn automatically will be put on the ballot as a result of a leadership challenge.

having read the section, i don't think its that ambiguous, just not explicit for this scenario. its written without a thought of a leader having such little support in the PLP and not leaving. the anti-corbynistas are playing semantics, focusing on one sentence in isolation without the context of the whole section. this is the text, the focus is on the bit in bold, the argument ignores the case which implies that is applies to challengers, not the incumbent leader.

ii: Where there is no vacancy nominations may be sought by potential challengers each year prior to the annual session of Party conference. In this case any nomination must be supported by 20% of the combined Commons members of the PLP and members of the EPLP. Nominations not attaining this threshold shall be null and void.

though it is a sad state of affairs that a political party leader cannot round up 20% of the members to support him.

 

[ROSM]

having read the section, i don't think its that ambiguous, just not explicit for this scenario. its written without a thought of a leader having such little support in the PLP and not leaving. the anti-corbynistas are playing semantics, focusing on one sentence in isolation without the context of the whole section. this is the text, the focus is on the bit in bold, the argument ignores the case which implies that is applies to challengers, not the incumbent leader.



though it is a sad state of affairs that a political party leader cannot round up 20% of the members to support him.

When John Smith started rewriting the rule book it wasnt perceived that a leader would not be able to get the entry criteria of nominations or if that were the case that they would still plough on. The rules were still unclear when kinnock was challenged in 88 when he had an 87% mandate but he got the nominations to avoid doubt ( he got them easily). His main challenge was led by Corbyn who was backing Tony Benn.

What a world we live in where we now have Kinnock having the moral high ground

 

[DFL JCL]

It's funny because i have read that previously, and my initial thought was that Corbyn would need 20%.

 

[Chicken Run]

The Labour Party really is a nasty party! This report from last weeks local party
Saturday’s annual general meeting of the Brighton Hove and District Labour party saw Corbyn supporters elected to key positions amid reports of heckling, spitting and threats of physical violence.

 

[biddles911]

Damn right they do.



No, make that 3. I don't think he'll win the next election as the swing needed is too great - although if Brexit goes haywire, he could do.

But, as I posted on another thread, while most elections are won from the centre, just occasionally, they're not. As I said, 1945 and 1979 were examples of elections where a radical vision succeeded. I do think that these are extraordinary times and it's the sort of situation where a radical vision could succeed again. This may be UKIP or even the Greens but it could well be a more radical Labour.

Don't think most people are up for extraordinary times and Brexit will probably give them all the excitement they want without the additional challenge of electing an incompetent leader and a totally fractured party?

Not sure about your analysis of 1945 and 1979 though. 1945 maybe, and for obvious reasons, but I think 1979 was far more about the winter of discontent than any radical vision offered by the opposition.

Coming from a (virtually) nil base I can't see any chance of UKIP or the Greens having any real say in an election outcome but I could see a resurgence of the Liberals, particularly if they offer the prospect of re-embracing the EU.......




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[London Irish]

I have seen nothing from momentum that shows anything other than a pressure group with chips on both shoulders. The only olive branch would be the one poking in the eye, sitting MP's they define as red tories or blue labour for daring to questions corbyn infallibility

Yet Momentum has a clear policy of opposing re-selections? Don't believe the hype I would suggest.

(Obviously that policy may change if the MPs just want to carry on setting the Labour Party on fire for ever more)

 

[London Irish]

The Labour Party really is a nasty party! This report from last weeks local party
Saturday’s annual general meeting of the Brighton Hove and District Labour party saw Corbyn supporters elected to key positions amid reports of heckling, spitting and threats of physical violence.

I was there and it was a wonderful festival of democracy in action! yes some plonker got frustrated by the long wait to get into the venue and had words with a steward, amazing that a football fan thinks that's an issue to faint about

 

[London Irish]

Interesting Yougov poll tonight saying members of the 5 big affiliated unions seemingly over 60% that Corbyn should be gone by next election.

Corbyn could be the only leader without the support of his parliamentary party or his paymasters. Just the £3 day trippers plus the cultists left?

Except this was a poll of unaffiliated members - a majority of whom said that Labour would lose the election if it replaced Corbyn. So, to sum up, a poll about as useful as a Boro shinguard

 

[Titanic]

The Labour Party really is a nasty party! This report from last weeks local party
Saturday’s annual general meeting of the Brighton Hove and District Labour party saw Corbyn supporters elected to key positions amid reports of heckling, spitting and threats of physical violence.

Is this, and bricks through your windows, the 'kinder, gentler politics' that Mr Corbyn espouses?

 

[Ernest]

Is this, and bricks through your windows, the 'kinder, gentler politics' that Mr Corbyn espouses?

And smearing decent people on TV ? Who knows who did it ? Ever heard of being set up ?

 

[Titanic]

Corbyn told to leave the room... and a secret ballot of the NEC? Blimey!

 

[London Irish]

Is this, and bricks through your windows, the 'kinder, gentler politics' that Mr Corbyn espouses?

The same logic that says all Albion fans are responsible for some pissed-up numpty getting arrested at an away game