[Albion] The injustice against Liverpool

[A1X]

I watch a lot of rugby and the difference to football is night and day.

in rugby the referee remains in charge. He's advised by the video ref but his decision is final and he will often disagree with the video ref. Replays are freely played on the big screen in the stadium for everyone to see, including the ref. Everyone can hear what's being said. You might not agree with the decision but you can hear the reasoning behind it.

In football none of this applies.
I often wondered why they don't play the audio of the VAR officials for everyone to hear. What have they got to hide. Let's hear the professionals in action. Well, now we know why.
Listening to that audio was a real ear opener.

As a cricket watcher, exactly the same there. It took them years to work out you needed to play the audio in the ground, mind, but when they did they’ve never looked back.

Unfortunately football is too arrogant to take lessons from such “lesser” sports.

 

[beorhthelm]

Staggering they don’t have ‘clear and obvious’ protocols. ...

ironic, eh?

 

[Deadly Danson]

Clearly they were so desperate (perhaps rightly) to not slow down the game too much that as soon as an offside was clear they were trigger happy and just blurted "check complete". I can forgive that. I can see how it happened, however bonkers and frustrating it is and there are obvious flaws that has a simple fix. It's REALLY bad ...but I can rationalise it.

The truly mad aspect is that actually they noticed the error really soon after play resumed....AND then had a stop in play with a throw in....and STILL thought sticking to protocol (not calling the game back after it's restarted) was a better option than just openly ignoring a goal they knew was a goal.

Crazy.

Completely agree. I can absolutely see the moment of madness that caused the error. It's a brain fart that anyone can succumb to (although as you say better procedures and clarity would have stopped that). But yes, even though strictly speaking it's against the rules they had the opportunity to stop the game a few seconds later and f***ed that up too. Common sense should have taken over.

Slightly more sinister for me is the "are you happy with that image?" line. It does make me question whether they adapt the image we see to suit their own agenda sometimes. I've very suspicious of those lines and the procedure in general. It's definitely time for the semi automated offside to come in. And then show it in real time on the big screen like Hawkeye so we all find out if it's onside or offside at the same time.

 

[Wozza]

And then show it in real time on the big screen like Hawkeye so we all find out if it's onside or offside at the same time.

Some Premier League grounds don't have video screens. Anfield, for example.

 

[Mustafa II]

I completely disagree with your comments here. You can't compound one error (even if it is a f***ing huge error) by then completely ignoring the VAR protocols and going back and changing a decision even after play has re-started.

I think what this does show is that the whole VAR process is an absolute farce as it currently stands in this country. The concept of VAR is hugely flawed in that you are basically re-refereeing incidents and you've now lost "the referee's decision is final" concept. Just about the ONLY saving grace for VAR was that it could assist with matters of fact, ie was someone offside or not. However, there have now been multiple instances that have proven that VAR is not even competent to make judgements on those issues.

I think there is a case to be made for binning the whole shambles off until it can be implemented in a competent fashion.

That ship has sailed. VAR for all its faults is far superior to relying on a few blokes running around the pitch and touchlines making some outrageous decisions because they just didn't get a clear view. Fans would miss VAR if it were gone now.

It seems to me that this error was made because they were rushing/panicking - human error. It's quite notable that VAR has been taking less time to make decisions this season, presumably because the 'wait' has been known to disrupt the flow of games and frustrate fans.

The solution, for me, would be for VAR not to make decisions unless there is 100% certainty - and if there is enough reason to doubt their decision, then they simply shouldn't be making it.

 

[A1X]

Some Premier League grounds don't have video screens. Anfield, for example.

If these second rate grounds can’t keep up then should they even be hosting Premier League games?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I'm shocked it's not a conspiracy and just a f*** up, I really am

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Mistakes happen.

Some people need to get a grip on themselves

 

[AZ Gull]

... VAR for all its faults is far superior to relying on a few blokes running around the pitch and touchlines making some outrageous decisions because they just didn't get a clear view.
...

VAR has repeatedly made some outrageous (and factually incorrect) decisions when they have every conceivable view you would possibly want.

 

[beorhthelm]

Slightly more sinister for me is the "are you happy with that image?" line. It does make me question whether they adapt the image we see to suit their own agenda sometimes. I've very suspicious of those lines and the procedure in general. It's definitely time for the semi automated offside to come in. And then show it in real time on the big screen like Hawkeye so we all find out if it's onside or offside at the same time.

watch the video, will seem ok in context (checking the angle to view).
the problem with any automation is no fixed points of reference. cricket and tennis you have stumps and lines, you can train the cameras on and make a mm perfect analysis. for offside you have the ball and multiple players to track anywhere in half the pitch. probably not impossible, just not really credible to do reliably within a short time.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If these second rate grounds can’t keep up then should they even be hosting Premier League games?

I don't understand how this wasn't mandatory when bringing in VAR

 

[Mustafa II]

VAR has repeatedly made some outrageous (and factually incorrect) decisions when they have every conceivable view you would possibly want.

It has... but it also makes a lot of correct decisions too. In fact, the correct decisions by far outnumber the poor decisions... and VAR gets more decisions right in football than it did when there was just a ref and his linesman.

Problem is, when a ref got a decision wrong - it was a fairly commonplace occurrence. Unless it was blatantly obvious, it was forgiveable... however when VAR gets something wrong, there is no excuse - it is an unforgiveable controversy that will be talked about for months, if not years.

VAR is part of the game now - it is needed in 2023... but they really need to improve their policies in a transparent fashion to make the decision making process as close to 100% accurate as it is possible for them to achieve.

 

[Deadly Danson]

watch the video, will seem ok in context (checking the angle to view).
the problem with any automation is no fixed points of reference. cricket and tennis you have stumps and lines, you can train the cameras on and make a mm perfect analysis. for offside you have the ball and multiple players to track anywhere in half the pitch. probably not impossible, just not really credible to do reliably within a short time.

It was watching the video that gave me cause for concern. It sounded like he was saying "are you happy for that to be the image we show?" Probably reading too much into it but it does feel like they are covering each others backs a bit which is of course natural but not much good for accuracy.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

watch the video, will seem ok in context (checking the angle to view).
the problem with any automation is no fixed points of reference. cricket and tennis you have stumps and lines, you can train the cameras on and make a mm perfect analysis. for offside you have the ball and multiple players to track anywhere in half the pitch. probably not impossible, just not really credible to do reliably within a short time.

From my experience automation must be taught and can only be done if you have a fixed point of reference. The fixed point can either be a physical point (hard stop) or a taught point using some form of encoder or resolver. I would expect tha VAR technology uses the various points around the edge of pitch (corners for instance) to provide the points of reference needed to automate and for VAR to work. It could be as simple as a bloke with a pole. I suspect I haven’t explained this at all well so my apologies.

 

[um bongo molongo]

I think they’re getting too much stick. They did manage to draw the lines in the right process. Versus last year it’s progress. Baby steps and all that.

 

[AZ Gull]

... but they really need to improve their policies in a transparent fashion to make the decision making process as close to 100% accurate as it is possible for them to achieve.

VAR is now in its FIFTH year in use in the PL. When, exactly, are you expectig to see this improvement enacted?

 

[Pevenseagull]

'Well done boys, good process'

I shall be adopting that phrase to describe abject f*** ups.

 

[Easy 10]

Fans would miss VAR if it were gone now.

You do not speak for me.

Never wanted it. My worst fears have been realised, in fact its become even worse than I ever envisaged, the way it has been implemented is an absolute clusterf*ck (and thats not just based on this latest debacle). I'd bin it tomorrow.

I find watching games that do NOT have VAR such a welcome, refreshing holiday from it. When a goal is scored, its a goal. Lovely.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You do not speak for me.

Never wanted it. My worst fears have been realised, in fact its become even worse than I ever envisaged, the way it has been implemented is an absolute clusterf*ck (and thats not just based on this latest debacle). I'd bin it tomorrow.

I find watching games that do NOT have VAR such a welcome, refreshing holiday from it. When a goal is scored, its a goal. Lovely.

100%

VAR has just made getting the decision wrong longer, less transparent and more annoying. It can get in the sea.

 

[Easy 10]

100%

VAR has just made getting the decision wrong longer, less transparent and more annoying. It can get in the sea.

Yup.

All we've done is swap the on-field controversy over iffy decisions, to a load of off-field studio driven iffy (or downright WRONG) decisions, with the caveat that there really is no excuse for the decisions coming out of Shockly Park, when they have the opportunity to review from miultiple angles.

Yes it does correct some wrong calls, but at what cost ? As a spectacle the game has suffered massively. We lived happily without it for 120 years, so anyone who thinks we'd "all miss it if it was gone" now is talking absolute BOBBINS as far as I'm concerned. The EFL fans don't seem to be screaming for it, do they.