The great Vicente saga - 2012 edition [All quite exciting in the end]

[Acker79]

But there were several posts earlier wondering why there wasn't any journalism relating to this story, and deploring badly translated spanish reports. Well there's someone over there on the local paper doing all of this. The Argus , having read NSC for years but first time poster !, gets unfairly hard time on here. Worth celebrating it when it does a good job. With Vicente its been pretty good.

I think that was mostly me, thank you for clarifying. Though, since so few people seemed to be aware of this, it makes me question what some people are basing their views on.

Agent says Vicente will miss training From The Argus)
Not looking good

I don't remember if I said it on this thread or one of the other vicente ones, but I would be more worried if he did show up. Not showing up for training is a power play in response to the club's power play of activating the second year clause. It's all negotiation and I'm not reading anything into his absence other than his side flexing their muscles to show the club may have activated the clause, but vicente and his team aren't going to kowtow to the clubs wishes in this negotiation. I'd have viewed him showing up as a sign of not caring about negotiations going forward because it was all about the exit and not about needing to show them he had a good position at the negotiation.

Point one is that Vicente owes Brighton nothing and as for comments for loyalty, he was an employee of ours for just under one year. That doesn't make him a lifelong supporter.
With regard to the comments on contract, yes he signed a one year contract with an option to extend. It was very clear in the press, and no doubt reporters can substantiate when GP said what he did, that BHA were not going to invoke that extension if Vicented didn't want that. As far as I am aware, that is not a hearsay comment and hasn't been denied. On that basis, a court may well find in favour of Vicente, who would argue that if he did not want to come back he would be free to talk to other clubs. Unfortunately this appears another mismanagement of contracts by the club. What they should have done is invoked the extension straight away and then offer to negotiate a new contract, rather than the other way around. Vicente would not have got ideas in his head that he could go elsewhere and would probably be, at this moment, on a route march over the south downs with the rest of the squad!!!

I agree with the first sentence, but
Gus doesn't have any legal authority in contracts, so his claim he wouldn't stand in his way wasn't legally binding, no court would side with vicente on that basis.
If the claim was that they wouldn't activate the clause if vicente didn't want it, them being 90-95% in agreement would indicate he had shown interest in staying another year, given them reason to believe he wanted it and so again, courts wouldn't side with vicente on that basis.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I agree with the first sentence, but Gus doesn't have any legal authority in contracts, so his claim he wouldn't stand in his way wasn't legally binding, no court would side with vicente on that basis.

Why wouldn't GP have legal authority? The contract is between BHA and Vicente, Gus being the team manager could be seen in court as having legal authority even if he wasn't the signatory on the contract itself, or not being a director. If it can be seen that GP as a BHA employee has stated BHA's position and has authority to do so (which wasn't countered by BHA at the time), then this verbal agreement, if made to Vicente directly could be seen as legally binding in itself. I say could, but of course with any verbal contractual agreement, proving it one way or another is very difficult. I don't think your point regarding GP's legal authority is entirely accurate.

 

[Mr Burns]

Tottenaham didn't win about 30 games when Gareth Bale started, does that mean he's shit too?

Not at all. But then I said Vicente's probably the best player we've ever had.

But if a manager is so stuck in his ways, he will not adapt the side to fit around Vicente, then why bother with Vicente. One win in 13 suggests with Vicente in the side and Poyet as manager, if that trend continues into the new season, we're f***ed!!

 

[Mr Burns]

Why wouldn't GP have legal authority? The contract is between BHA and Vicente, Gus being the team manager could be seen in court as having legal authority even if he wasn't the signatory on the contract itself, or not being a director. If it can be seen that GP as a BHA employee has stated BHA's position and has authority to do so (which wasn't countered by BHA at the time), then this verbal agreement, if made to Vicente directly could be seen as legally binding in itself. I say could, but of course with any verbal contractual agreement, proving it one way or another is very difficult. I don't think your point regarding GP's legal authority is entirely accurate.

Interesting thought.

 

[Acker79]

Why wouldn't GP have legal authority? The contract is between BHA and Vicente, Gus being the team manager could be seen in court as having legal authority even if he wasn't the signatory on the contract itself, or not being a director. If it can be seen that GP as a BHA employee has stated BHA's position and has authority to do so (which wasn't countered by BHA at the time), then this verbal agreement, if made to Vicente directly could be seen as legally binding in itself. I say could, but of course with any verbal contractual agreement, proving it one way or another is very difficult. I don't think your point regarding GP's legal authority is entirely accurate.

Because the negotiation of contracts and employment of players and staff is not his job. The player signs with the club, not the manager. He doesn't sign or pay the players.

 

[peterward]

Good point, Elche are bang out of order... if they are talking to Vicente / his agent now, they are breaking the rules...

that actually raises an interesting question.

Did Elche approach Brighton and ask to speak to Vicente?

he was under contract with us when all this happened and still is with option exercised.

Brighton could play hardball with Elche for tapping up and the threat of reporting them, if they don't either pay up or back off.

 

[sydney]

1.6 m and do one.

 

[Basil Fawlty]

I think we've got to be Patient on the matter. I think TB and Gus are the phones and other communications. To get this matter sorted ASAP. If this drags on to long, then we should just say to his Agent and him take it or leave it.

 

[peterward]

[George Boyd] Supposedly Palace bound?

and a lifelong palace fan?

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

and a lifelong palace fan?

Indeed.

 

[Bladders]

So is the consensus...

A. Vicente wants an improved 2 year deal from us

B. Be released from his obligation to us so he can sign with Elche FC on a free

C. Hasn't made his mind up yet

D. None of the above.

 

[peterward]

So is the consensus...

A. Vicente wants an improved 2 year deal from us

B. Be released from his obligation to us so he can sign with Elche FC on a free

C. Hasn't made his mind up yet

D. None of the above.

E. F*ck knows whats going on

 

[Originunknown]

I've recently lost quite a bit of the optimism I had on this.

Mainly speculation here but it does seem as though he wants to stay in Spain.

 

[bhawoddy]

In my case I disagree. I REALLY am not sure he fitted into our team.. at least the team we had last season. No one questions his ability but sometimes the best player in the world doesnt fit in a team and our form with him playing was not great.

This is laughable. lool

more like the rest of the squad didnt fit in with him. I think your too used to watching shit football mate. No disrespect, but this thinking is madness!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

that actually raises an interesting question.

Did Elche approach Brighton and ask to speak to Vicente?

he was under contract with us when all this happened and still is with option exercised.

Brighton could play hardball with Elche for tapping up and the threat of reporting them, if they don't either pay up or back off.

All wrong, I think.

Up until the moment that we took up the option (about a week ago), he was in the last 3 months of his contract, and thus free to hold talks with any club outside of England. I pretty sure that's how it works.

 

[bhawoddy]

Him and his agent are now being totally unprofessional regarding his no-show. I hope and think that far from forcing the club's hand in terms of shipping him out, it's going to mean they play hardball and don't pay him until he starts honouring the terms of the contract he signed.

And Gus wasn't, suggesting he wouldnt stand in his way if he wanted to leave?

you cant have it both ways!!

 

[peterward]

All wrong, I think.

Up until the moment that we took up the option (about a week ago), he was in the last 3 months of his contract, and thus free to hold talks with any club outside of England. I pretty sure that's how it works.

didnt know about the 3 month thing. thx HKFC

 

[bhawoddy]

No, the contract supercedes Gus' verbals in the press...

Legally yes, morally no!

 

[skipper734]

He definitely signed a Contract. Remember this?

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right, just got back from work. this is my 2nd Nsc post. My 1st was on here earlier about the best day at work ever! I've been a fan since I can remember, my Dad used to take me to the Goldstone as a kid, done the Withdean, loving Amex life etc etc. So for this to happen to an Albion fan is amazing.I work at Lgw (gatwick airport).The time was around 1.30pm. I was securing the sky when I spot a non football supervisor running towards me. He says " you know football don`t you?" "yep " I reply, how can I help? he tells me he`s got a contract handed to him outside central search by some football club and he`s got to run it to the gate to get it signed before the player gets on the plane. "who is it I ask?" "eeeerrrrr?? someone called Vincente" says this non football supervisor. At this point I don't quite remember what I said? something like go go go go fekin go!!! I find myself sprinting off with the supervisor up and over the link bridge towards gate 102 to the easyjet Valencia flight. As we get to the bottom of the link bridge escalator my supervisor says "do you know what he looks like?" "damn right I do!!" and I see his agent to pacing up and down on his mobile with the legend Vicente sitting waiting for his contract to arrive at the gate. I introduced myself in the little Spanish I know( just enough to tell him what we had and what was going on) I then had to explain he had to sign on each line marked with an X. As I'm watching this immense player signing the contract for the Albion, the agent says to me " where is the payment section?" I point it out for him (sadly, I didn't see how much he will earn) "thanks" says the agent "no probs" I say. then I ask for a picture with the legend Vicente, he poses with me, and off and away we sprint to handover the signed contract back to the suits outside central search. What an incredible day! Without doubt one of the greatest moments of my life!! that's how it went down at lgw today. picture to follow.

 

[Everest]

Legally yes, morally no!

But what do courts have to adhere to?