[Politics] The General Election Thread

[beorhthelm]

I can cite several professors of economics, and senior financial traders who have carried out detailed research into how money actually works within the economies of countries with their own currencies who would agree with me. I realise this is going to be a major paradigm shift for some people used to the old neo-con model. How do you think it works then?

yeah, professors that are pushing this fringe alternative model. its not like a science theory where there may be alternative understanding, they are synthesising a new model for fiscal economics to allow free money to be available to government. its not, because the economy exists without government intervention, and they have to manage all the other actors and consequences of action.

and you didnt even get the mechanics of MMT right. money does not go from government budget to the central bank, they borrow from the central bank and spending occurs direct from the government department.

 

[BenGarfield]

yeah, professors that are pushing this fringe alternative model. its not like a science theory where there may be alternative understanding, they are synthesising a new model for fiscal economics to allow free money to be available to government. its not, because the economy exists without government intervention, and they have to manage all the other actors and consequences of action.

and you didnt even get the mechanics of MMT right. money does not go from government budget to the central bank, they borrow from the central bank and spending occurs direct from the government department.

Economics as a whole is not a science comparbale with physics, for example. This new(ish) way of looking at the flow of money in the econnomy, may seem novel, but seems to make sense. Essentially within the restriction of keeping inflation in check the goverment with its own fiat currency neither needs to borrow nor recieve taxes. Taxes can be used,for example, as a means of reducing infation or adjusting income inequalities. I grant you I may have got the exact flow between the government and its departments wrong for this coutntry, but this doesnt affect the mainn premise of the MMT argument.

 

[BenGarfield]

Feel free to post said evidence.

Before I do, and assembling all this, and their is a whole mass of it at various levels of complexity, from the humorous basic outline to detailed economic papers which may take some time, and I dont want to waste either of our valuable time - what would you regard as conclusive evidence that the economy/money actually works in the way I and many others suggests?

 

[nicko31]

Meanwhile, in today's "but Corbyn is owned by Russia too!" news...

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I remember the Telegraph being half decent when I was kid, its not much better than the Mail these days. Just a rag...

 

[ROKERITE]

I remember the Telegraph being half decent when I was kid, its not much better than the Mail these days. Just a rag...

Yes, but still way, way better than The Guardian.

 

[A1X]

Yes, but still way, way better than The Guardian.

Not really. The Guardian retains journalistic independence and isn't the mouthpiece for it's owners and their political views. Real charmers the Barclay Brothers are, if you're not familiar with them I'd urge looking them up.

The Guardian also won a Pulitzer not so very long ago. Not seeing the Telegraph listed against the winners.

 

[Bakero]

Yes, but still way, way better than The Guardian.

Based on what? (aside from tribal loyalty)

 

[nicko31]

Not really. The Guardian retains journalistic independence and isn't the mouthpiece for it's owners and their political views. Real charmers the Barclay Brothers are, if you're not familiar with them I'd urge looking them up.

The Guardian also won a Pulitzer not so very long ago. Not seeing the Telegraph listed against the winners.

Does subscription to the Telegraph entitle readers to a discount at the Ritz Hotel or is it just Boris?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I remember the Telegraph being half decent when I was kid, its not much better than the Mail these days. Just a rag...

An enthusiastic Conservative was asked a few pages back where he got his news from. I didn't see an answer but it was a good question. Where do we all get our news from? My most regular print reads are The Times, the New Statesman and the Spectator (I don't actually buy the last two). When I want a bit of confirmation bias I look at the Indy/Guardian sites and when I want to see the other side I go behind a friend's sofa and look at the Telegraph.

Our house has as few rules as possible but we refuse to have the Daily Mail in it, agreeing with the terrorist victim's father's implication that it promotes hatred and ignorance. I'd rather people smoked.

I watch BBC News but, after years of unquestioning loyalty, feel that it is compromised in its Brexit coverage by government pressure. Sky News is watched at least as much.

 

[Chicken Run]

Does subscription to the Telegraph entitle readers to a discount at the Ritz Hotel or is it just Boris?

Do people still buy or read newspapers anymore?

 

[A1X]

Does subscription to the Telegraph entitle readers to a discount at the Ritz Hotel or is it just Boris?

I think it applies for other millionaires, to be fair.

 

[A1X]

Vote Tory. Because why should the Government have to abide by the law anyway?

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[Lever]

Do people still buy or read newspapers anymore?

Do you think shops and garages put them out as window dressing and then pop them back when they close for the day?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

50,000 more nurses, it is in the manifesto.

So if the Labour Party loudly announced that it was introducing a tax change that would see you getting a £100 bonus in your £500 pay packet every week but on investigating you discovered that they were actually going to give you £40 more whilst at the same time delaying their plan to charge you £60 extra tax you would not feel in the tiniest way a little bit misled? Even though your pay would rise to only £540?

 

[Lever]

If you care to present around 14000 individual instance then I will believe Nick the Naieve31. Johnson has lied, just like all politicians do, even JC, but throwing imaginary totals of lies around is just twaddle.

I see... so Johnson's lies are somehow more acceptable than anyone else's and it's okay to vote the nonpareil of liars back into office.......

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Stick your party beliefs behind you and really look into what type of men Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are.

They will put us and our country into danger like no other politicians have ever done.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Stick your party beliefs behind you and really look into what type of men Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are.

They will put us and our country into danger like no other politicians have ever done.

Indeed. Scary man.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/19/jeremy-corbyn-called-for-nato-to-be-closed-down-and-members-to-g/

 

[A1X]

Stick your party beliefs behind you and really look into what type of men Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are.

They will put us and our country into danger like no other politicians have ever done.

I would suggest Boris Johnson poses an infinitely greater threat if you wish to go down this road.

 

[Lever]

A lot of people have cause to be frightened of Johnson and his mendacious government.....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...deportations-europe-uk-citizens-a9154371.html

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I can cite several professors of economics, and senior financial traders who have carried out detailed research into how money actually works within the economies of countries with their own currencies who would agree with me. I realise this is going to be a major paradigm shift for some people used to the old neo-con model. How do you think it works then?

Before I do, and assembling all this, and their is a whole mass of it at various levels of complexity, from the humorous basic outline to detailed economic papers which may take some time, and I dont want to waste either of our valuable time - what would you regard as conclusive evidence that the economy/money actually works in the way I and many others suggests?

Anything that is a bit more solid and real life than the theoretical 'evidence' in your first post.