[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Louis MacNeice]

Perhaps the £100b odd he intends to borrow to re-nationalise railways and utilities, will take an awful long time to pay that back.............

As opposed to to keep paying dividends to share holders which will never end. Also it doesn't explain how it will ruin the country; remember other countries have public utilities (indeed some of them own large chunks of our privatised utilities).

Have another go.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

today's Times.- but they give pages and pages on why Corbyn and co. would not only ruin the country's economy but would also pose a threat to the security of the country.

Well, imagine that!

 

[BLOCK F]

So what in Labour's policies will bring ruin on the country; specifics please? To date all I see is some social democratic reforms which would see more money for health care, education and council housing, alongside increased protections for people at work. A Corbyn led Labour government will be neither a terrorist apocalypse, nor a stalinist nirvana; more of a bit of mainstream tried and tested social democratic market management.

Keep calm and carry on.

Sorry, LM, I just can't be bothered to get into discussions about Labour's policies. I merely wanted to point out that the Times had printed quite a few pages of , let us say, less than flattering opinions on his suitability for high office.
I'm not dodging the issue and if you are that bothered about reading their copy, please do so. I made a vow to myself not to comment on politics as it has all become rather nasty on NSC and I can't be bothered with all the name calling.
Unfortunately, I broke that vow and just had to comment today, but that will be just about it from me.
Good luck in what you believe. We just happen to disagree.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

6.7% probability of that coalition coming to fruition. I hope your day job doesn't involve working with numbers.

Edit: and, let's be clear, this is nothing to do with what I want or don't want. I was merely highlighting that what you said is most likely is seen as far from that according to the market right now.

Not sure odds are the arbiter of political outcomes that you present them as. What odds could you have got on Leave just before the polls closed? (circa 8/1), or a Conservative majority a couple of days after the 2017 election was called? (2/11)

 

[maltaseagull]

Perhaps the £100b odd he intends to borrow to re-nationalise railways and utilities, will take an awful long time to pay that back.............

Wasn't it £196 billion? Plus £250 billion to upgrade housing. ( £60 billion borrowed and the rest income from 400000 jobs they are going to create)

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I merely wanted to point out that the Times had printed quite a few pages of , let us say, less than flattering opinions on his suitability for high office.

Again - this is not news, nor worthy of serious consideration. Tory mouthpiece, owned by billionaire tax exile, smears Labour leader. What ELSE would they print?

 

[BLOCK F]

Well, imagine that!

Have you read it?
And, by the way, contrary to what you may believe, The Tiimes is certainly not in the same league as the Telegraph in being right wing.

P.S. I have just read your latest post and it is a classic example of why I really can't be bothered to discuss politics on NSC.
Let us just agree to disagree.
PPS. It was quoting ex Labour grandees, by the way!

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Had my hair cut lunchtime and the radio mentioned it being so many days to the election. I just commented about it being x days to avoid the news and not answer the door and the girl said "Is there an election then?". Yep. "A general one?" Yep. "Do you reckon the Tories will get back in? Boris promised Brexit and we didn't get it".

Just goes to show how little interest some people have in politics that she was unaware there was a General Election and will probably vote Brexit Party purely because she asked for Brexit and didn't get it. Really sad that people will elect someone for the next 5 years purely on one matter with no regards for any other issues. And my cod psychology based on a 30 second conversation suggests a counter intuitive vote by taking away a vote from the incumbent she would vote for previously - possibly allowing in someone with the opposite to her views. (Unlikely in Wealden but repeated in marginals might be an issue)

All massive speculation based on a meaningless conversation but it does show me why Boris keeps on about a surrender bill and Corbyn keeps on about a sellout bill. Trite buzzwords might annoy people who understand some of the issues but there are millions out there who will vote on instinct based on a soundbite. For every person on this thread arguing black is white for their particular views, there are loads of people with a passing interest or no interest who will vote on one issue or one soundbite.

 

[maltaseagull]

Again - this is not news, nor worthy of serious consideration. Tory mouthpiece smears Labour labour. What ELSE are they going to print?

Are there any newspapers that are not Tory mouthpieces?
Apart from the Morning Star of course.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Sorry, LM, I just can't be bothered to get into discussions about Labour's policies.

Without a discussion of actual policies how do we decide who to vote for? Is it just a party leaders personality contest mediated by the owners of national newspapers, the choices of the BBC/ITV et al and who posts the the most engaging meme on social media?

Say it ain't so...please say it ain't so.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Have you read it?
And, by the way, contrary to what you may believe, The Tiimes is certainly not in the same league as the Telegraph in being right wing.

P.S. I have just read your latest post and it is a classic example of why I really can't be bothered to discuss politics on NSC.
Let us just agree to disagree.
PPS. It was quoting ex Labour grandees, by the way!

The Times is more measured but it is still owned by Murdoch. It's the One Nation to The Telegraph's ERG. Shows no sign of leaving the fold just now though.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Wasn't it £196 billion? Plus £250 billion to upgrade housing. ( £60 billion borrowed and the rest income from 400000 jobs they are going to create)

You do know how Keynesian economics works don't you? The very successful and enduring post war boom was built on it and was supported by both Labour and Conservatives. Borrowing money cheaply, as governments can do, is a tried and tested way of putting money in the pockets of working people, generating economic growth and social stability in both Europe and North America.

It's not some Marxist plot but rather a practical recognition of the implications of Cameron's recognition that 'we're all in this together'.

 

[Beach Hut]

As opposed to to keep paying dividends to share holders which will never end. Also it doesn't explain how it will ruin the country; remember other countries have public utilities (indeed some of them own large chunks of our privatised utilities).

Have another go.

I will, far higher taxes for everyone one - excellent vote winner

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Are there any newspapers that are not Tory mouthpieces?
Apart from the Morning Star of course.

 

[maltaseagull]

You do know how Keynesian economics works don't yoyyou? The very successful and enduring post war boom was built on it and was supported by both Labour and Conservatives. Borrowing money cheaply, as governments can do, is a tried and tested way of putting money in the pockets of working people, generating economic growth and social stability in both Europe and North America.

It's not some Marxist plot but rather a practical recognition of the implications of Cameron's recognition that 'we're all in this together'.

I do understand but do you understand that borrowings need to be repaid?
UK debt is 86% of GDP it seems both parties are aiming for 100%

 

[BLOCK F]

Without a discussion of actual policies how do we decide who to vote for? Is it just a party leaders personality contest mediated by the owners of national newspapers, the choices of the BBC/ITV et al and who posts the the most engaging meme on social media?

Say it ain't so...please say it ain't so.

'It ain't so'.
You go ahead and discuss to your heart's content; it is just that I won't be joining in much on NSC.
Some people love it, but most people on NSC and the country probably don't.
Each to their own!

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Are there any newspapers that are not Tory mouthpieces?
Apart from the Morning Star of course.

Mirror (Labour)
Guardian (Lib-Demish)
Independent (who knows or cares)
Financial Times (definitely establishment but thoughtful)
Star (phwoar!)

Which leaves the Mail, Express, Times and Telegraph as fully paid up Tory cheerleaders... which to be fair they are pretty up front about.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I don't think they've forgotten at all. They've returned to the core principles of the party. What this means is they are less appealing to voters who want to vote for 3 parties that are all vaguely similar, and you're choosing between narrow political ideologies. However that is not what the party wants to do, it wants to represent a modern socialist democracy. It is working in other European countries and it is time to consider there are alternatives to the centre ground that don't need to conjure up ridiculous analogies with Stalin and communism.

The fact is, much of our post office, utility delivery, rail franchises are not owned by foreign private companies, they are owned by foreign public state entities. So the reality of these politics isn't some dystopian vision, it is from successfully run European neighbours.

Centrists and fence sitters may not buy into it, others may only see Corbyn as a representation of a 1970s political 'bogeyman', but dig a bit deeper and the policies are something that resonate and did so to nearly 14m voters at the last election.

I don't think Peter Mandelson or Alistair Campbell would have started a General Election campaign with Labour so far behind in the polls. Once again - like 2 years ago - you have a mountain to climb.

Furthermore - and this is key - it is logical for voters to associate this version of Labour with the Labour Party of the 70s that drove the country into the ground for 3 reasons:

1. Brexit is turning the clock back to 1973 when we were out of Europe - that is the frame through which UK politics is viewed.
2. Corbyn himself was part of that Labour Party of the 1970s in the bad, old days.
3. He opposed much of 'New' Labour under Blair and Brown.

Corbyn is an honest campaigner, he is passionate, a man of conviction and fundamentally a decent human being but he does not know how to lead, he hasn't surrounded himself with his ablest politicians and the public aren't convinced by his position on Brexit, the monarchy or Northern Ireland or that he has resolved the allegations of anti-semitism.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I will, far higher taxes for everyone one - excellent vote winner

Apparently Tories want to put up taxes; there's no other way to pay for their election promises to date...and who knows what additional extravaganzas are to come. It's where the taxes are levied that matters. A shift from regressive consumption taxes to progressive income taxes would be the way to go; especially on those (including companies and corporations) most able to pay.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Are there any newspapers that are not Tory mouthpieces?
Apart from the Morning Star of course.

Grauniad

Daily Mirror