[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Bold Seagull]

Although I agree he'd do that with time, and a decent majority, could he do any of that with a just half the MPs?

If you want to stop Brexit, you need the Tories out. Labour provide a route to stop Brexit, they just don't want to talk about it, because it will upset their voters. The problem is, you could end up with Corbyn running our country, and most people can't take that risk.

If it weren't for the stupid Labour members, Labour would have a better leader and we'd get rid of this shit Tory government and end Brexit.

2017 Labour polled 12.9m that exceeds every other election result for Labour accept for 1997 when Blair got 600k more votes than Corbyn and Wilson in '66 who got 200k more.

2017 12.9m
2015 9.3m
2010 8.6m
2005 9.6m
2001 10.7m
1997 13.5m
1992 11.6m
1987 10m
1983 8.4m
1979 11.5m
1974 11.5m
1974 11.6m
1970 12.2m
1966 13.1m
1964 12.2m

It's hard to make a convincing argument that a leader that got more votes in a GE than in every other election bar 2, is somehow the result of 'stupid' members. A leader that has also grown that membership substantially. Of course there are other metrics to take, whether vote share, seats won etc. but the fact remains in 2017 more people voted for Corbyn than had Cameron in the 2 previous elections.

Lets get rid of the Tories and see what Corbyn does. At the end of the day, democracy means we can get rid of him in a maximum of 5 years time. In all likelihood it would be in some form of coalition anyway.

 

[Grombleton]

Here we go again...

View attachment 116718

Newsflash: Tories are wankers. Completely out of touch with the real world and unless they can monetise it, they genuinely don't give a shit.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

As you feel so strongly about racial/religious discrimination, I trust you also condemn the Islamophobia which allegedly exists in the Conservative Party, and will not vote for them either. Even the former Conservative Party chairwoman, Baroness Warsi, has condemned the scale of anti-Muslim sentiment and rhetoric in the Conservative Party - with Johnson himself making derogatory comments a few months ago about the appearance of Muslim women.

Somehow, though, I suspect you're not really, genuinely, concerned about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, but merely pretend to be as a stick to beat Corbyn with, and score political points.

Also, some people choose to define any criticism of Israel's stance towards Palestine as 'anti-semitic' - even though many Jews also criticise Israel's policy towards Palestine.

I condemn discrimination in all political parties. As for the rest ...

The Corbynista movement has developed a very striking tic. Mention anti-Semitism and instantly, almost as an involuntary spasm, they will say: ‘What about Islamophobia?’ Mention Jewish suffering and, Tourette’s-like, they’ll bark back: ‘What about Muslim suffering?’ Mention the crisis of anti-Semitism in sections of Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party and barely a second will pass before they robotically intone for the thousandth time that day: ‘And what about Islamophobia in the Tory party?’

They cannot abide any discussion of Jews alone. They cannot tolerate any focus on anti-Jewish racism. They must always, without fail, raise Muslims. This creepy instinct to distract attention from anti-Jewish hatred, or at least to dilute discussion about it, is perhaps the most revealing and alarming aspect of the new anti-Semitism scarring sections of the British left.....It is undoubtedly the case that members of the Tory party hold and have expressed anti-Muslim sentiments, whether about Muslim migration, alleged Muslim behaviour, or the wisdom of having a Muslim prime minister in the UK. But such individual expression of prejudice cannot be compared to left-wing anti-Semites’ almost systematic targeting of actual Labour members and even Labour MPs whose only crime is to be Jewish – or ‘Zios’, to use the left-racist parlance.

Labour’s anti-Semitism is a different order to the existence of anti-Muslim sentiment among individuals in the Tory party. There has been no racist hounding of Muslim members of the Tory party. Indeed, Sajid Javid did relatively well in the leadership contest and is quite popular among the Tory membership. What has happened in Labour is not simply the expression of anti-Jewish prejudice but the weaponisation of it; the use of it internally against certain members and MPs; the systemised politicisation of it to target MPs who are seen as suspect because of their support for Israel or their entanglement in a presumed Zionist Lobby.


https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/07/12/why-corbynistas-have-such-a-problem-with-jews/

 

[nicko31]

Also, some people choose to define any criticism of Israel's stance towards Palestine as 'anti-semitic' - even though many Jews also criticise Israel's policy towards Palestine.

All too often its criticism of the Israeli government, a serial violator of International law...

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Yet our 'weak' economy can afford to pay £ multi-million salaries to corporate bosses and £ multi-million dividends to shareholders - odd that we never hear the top 1% being told that their eye-watering incomes and dividends are unaffordable, and are impoverishing the rest of British society.

Yet the moment anyone suggests even the mildest of egalitarian or redistributive policies to slightly reduce inequality and tackle poverty, the cry goes up "We can't afford it; any attempt at pursuing such policies will bankrupt the country"!

It's a complete con; ordinary working people constantly promised jam tomorrow, while bosses, landlords and shareholders gorge on champagne and caviar today, and everyday

Haven't ypu heard of the trickle down theory...…… and NO, it doesn't work.

 

[beorhthelm]

https://www.cityam.com/government-almost-matching-labours-spending-pledges-says-ifs/

Either:

A. they are talking bollocks about their future plans or
B. the austerity they have inflicted on the country was, after all, a political choice and not a fiscal necessity or
C. Both of the above

I am going C.

it is fun isnt it? in particular the student loans coming back on balance sheet. the option you missed out is that there has been no austerity for many years, that was Osborne's policy from about 7-8 years ago and even then he increased spending after about 2014, the debt rose, just more slowly. powerful message to have lasted so long. Johnson will be using this to sell his spending as better than Labours spending.

Labour did do a better job of costing their last budget for the budgeted items, the trouble was the £500bn off budget borrowing, which i believe is still policy. thats where the investment areas come from, and they are economically flawed. its great to spend 100bn on new hospitals but unless there is significant increase in NHS funding to staff them they would sit empty. you cannot achieve the McDonnell policy of maintaining a budget without a deficit and increase infrastructure investment, that investment needs increases to fund the services. then theres nationalisation, predicted to cost 170-190bn, using borrowing that will be paid for by profits from those companies. if the profit is going to fund the debt, where is the savings for the public? great irony here is the existing shareholders with bags of cash will become beneficiaries of fixed bond interest rather than variable dividends. is that communism or corporatism, im not sure? have yet to see manifesto spending plans but expect fun, smoke and mirrors from all parties.

also you shouldnt dismiss Laffer curve, its not been debunked. its effectively a price elasticity curve applied to tax. it is mis-quoted and mis-applied, its applicable to all tax levels not only the top bracket.

 

[jonny.rainbow]

Here we go again...

View attachment 116718

They’re not called the nasty party for nothing.

 

[Lower West Stander]

As you feel so strongly about racial/religious discrimination, I trust you also condemn the Islamophobia which allegedly exists in the Conservative Party, and will not vote for them either. Even the former Conservative Party chairwoman, Baroness Warsi, has condemned the scale of anti-Muslim sentiment and rhetoric in the Conservative Party - with Johnson himself making derogatory comments a few months ago about the appearance of Muslim women. But apparently that was just a bit of harmless 'Boris bantz' which only the 'PC brigade' could object to.

Somehow, though, I suspect you're not really, genuinely, concerned about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, but merely pretend to be as a stick to beat Corbyn with, and score political points.

Also, some people choose to define any criticism of Israel's stance towards Palestine as 'anti-semitic' - even though many Jews also criticise Israel's policy towards Palestine.

Love the way you completely ignored the anti-semitism issue and just started slagging off the Tories instead.....

 

[Coldeanseagull]

On that basis, I assume you never engage in any discussions about anything that politics affects!

All I know about politics is it makes a lot of people angry. There's enough of other crap going on without adding to it by me talking about stuff I just don't get

 

[Postman Pat]

Dick Braine.

Edit: Not you!

The day after an election is announced, he has quit as leader....bizarre.

The Ukip leader, Richard Braine, has resigned after less than three months in the post after a clash with the party’s national executive, leaving Ukip seeking its seventh permanent leader since 2016.

A party spokesman confirmed that Braine had said he would step down. It comes just over a week after Braine said the national executive had tried to suspend him amid a struggle for control of the party.

One source said Ukip appeared to be on its last legs as a party, and might potentially field no candidates in the general election in December.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...uits-ukip-leader-after-less-than-three-months

 

[vegster]

Yet our 'weak' economy can afford to pay £ multi-million salaries to corporate bosses and £ multi-million dividends to shareholders - odd that we never hear the top 1% being told that their eye-watering incomes and dividends are unaffordable, and are impoverishing the rest of British society.

Yet the moment anyone suggests even the mildest of egalitarian or redistributive policies to slightly reduce inequality and tackle poverty, the cry goes up "We can't afford it; any attempt at pursuing such policies will bankrupt the country"!

It's a complete con; ordinary working people constantly promised jam tomorrow, while bosses, landlords and shareholders gorge on champagne and caviar today, and everyday

Indeed, I have had one wage rise of 3% in the 5 years I gave worked fir my company, the owners are sat in the CI with £1.5 bn.

 

[clapham_gull]

I do wonder with these polls if your selected party as a cats chance in hell of getting in. I can tick any other party than Labour, but its unlikely to make a difference.

I hate our electoral system, really hate it. If you add up the votes from

1) Votes for losing candidates
2) "Excess votes" i.e. The ones the winning candidate didn't need because they "passed the post first"...

.. its adds up to something like 70% of the vote. In other words only 30% of the votes actually mean anything. The popular vote doesn't translate into any form of "mandate".

I'm not a believer in PR, just a tweek to our electoral system to incorporate a single transferable vote. It could potentially lead to Governments with larger majorities , since they would be forced to reach out beyond their core vote. This would "blunt" the extreme policies we are seeing on both sides of the house.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Meanwhile, how is the Brexit Party doing

Who knows, I suspect if the truth be known there are a few in the others and most didn't have a proper option to vote for.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I do wonder with these polls if your selected party as a cats chance in hell of getting in. I can tick any other party than Labour, but its unlikely to make a difference.

I hate our electoral system, really hate it. If you add up the votes from

1) Votes for losing candidates
2) "Excess votes" i.e. The ones the winning candidate didn't need because they "passed the post first"...

.. its adds up to something like 70% of the vote. In other words only 30% of the votes actually mean anything. The popular vote doesn't translate into any form of "mandate".

I'm not a believer in PR, just a tweek to our electoral system to incorporate a single transferable vote. It could potentially lead to Governments with larger majorities , since they would be forced to reach out beyond their core vote. This would "blunt" the extreme policies we are seeing on both sides of the house.

Feck me you lot will try and rig every single vote going just because you don't like the result.
No wonder the Labour Party have zero credibility.

 

[The GIF dude]

It is where I live! Labour got 60% of the vote in 2017.

If I lived a few streets away then it would be different as it will be pretty close between Lib Dems and Labour (I think the Lib Dems will retake the seat) but as it is, I may as well not bother (I will of course).

Stupid voting system.

I imagine Lib Dems will win Sheffield Hallam

 

[highflyer]

2017 Labour polled 12.9m that exceeds every other election result for Labour accept for 1997 when Blair got 600k more votes than Corbyn and Wilson in '66 who got 200k more...the fact remains in 2017 more people voted for Corbyn than had Cameron in the 2 previous elections. .

And yet people still persist in saying he is 'unelectable'

You don't like him? OK
You hope he doesn't get elected? More fool you, but each to their own.
You don't think he will get elected? Fair enough.
He's 'unelectable'? Factually wrong.

 

[Gwylan]

the option you missed out is that there has been no austerity for many years,

Try telling that to the local authorities that have had their budgets cut. The schools that are being forced to get rid of staff (and shut for half-days). Try telling that to the parents of special needs kids who have seen schools closed and their children denied education. Try telling that to the NHS, where there's a shortage of 40,000 nurses and midwifes. Try telling that to lawyers who see half the courtrooms shut while the backlog of cases grows longer.

No austerity, my arse.

 

[Ernest]

I think the Tories may go into panic mode once they realise that Johnson is not quite the winner or great spokesman that they think he is, I hope he doesn't go missing like May did especially after all his calling of Corbyn for being FRIT

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Meanwhile, how is the Brexit Party doing

Who knows, I suspect if the truth be known there are a few in the others and most didn't have a proper option to vote for.

I agree. The Brexit party have a really big part to play in this election.

They could ensure that the Conservatives don't get a majority (again) and have even less control over the whole process than they've been able to wield so far. Hopefully, they'll attract plenty of Turkeys to vote for Christmas, allowing a proper party to sweep to victory in their seat.

 

[beorhthelm]

Try telling that to the local authorities that have had their budgets cut. The schools that are being forced to get rid of staff (and shut for half-days). Try telling that to the parents of special needs kids who have seen schools closed and their children denied education. Try telling that to the NHS, where there's a shortage of 40,000 nurses and midwifes. Try telling that to lawyers who see half the courtrooms shut while the backlog of cases grows longer.

No austerity, my arse.

you may be right, the fact is spending has gone up. so the question is (and rarely asked) where is the money spent?