[Football] The future of VAR in England

[Nathan]

This is a rather meaningless stat from last year, as it counts things like 'goals chalked off for offside that were so obviously offside that they would have been flagged in the old days (Arsenal)' and so on. The amount of points we actually 'gained' from VAR was minimal. And it didn't count things where, in many people's view, VAR should have overruled the ref but didn't - that is, it only looked at overturned decisions, not confirmed decisions. So, for instance, where the on-field ref didn't give a penalty, and VAR inexplicably didn't give it either - it wasn't logged.

So - no, we weren't really the team that benefitted most.

And anyway, the main issue with VAR at the moment is consistency - where something one week is given, and the next week it's not.

Do you mean the Arsenal away game last year? The lino didn't flag at all and the ref gave the goal, it was only due to VAR that the goal was ruled out. They have changed the rule slightly now and linos are not required to raise the flag until the play has finished, but are still told to flag if there was off side. In the Arsenal case, she didn't flag after the 'goal' was scored. There was no indication from her that the goal was in doubt.

But yes consistency is key. Some of the hand ball decisions on Sunday were questionable at best, if we had the same refs/var refs on Friday against Burnley, I do wonder if we would have been given a pen.

 

[Mellotron]

I'll hazard a guess it will be exactly like what it has become.

You misunderstand me.

I'm saying in my hypothetical world it would be nothing like it is now - ie VAR used for checking bootlace directions.

My hypothetical scenario is never going to come to pass, and I'm fully aware of that. I was simply answering the question of what I would do about VAR.

 

[Seasidesage]

Stat is probably right. It certainly won't be withdrawn no matter how poor its use has been to this point.

Rule changes are needed to give it a chance. Clear daylight for offiside. Torso to Torso. Reintroduce intent into handball and the one thing they will find the hardest....produce referees and VAR refs who don't want to take centre stage, who can apply common bloody sense and will punish cheats and especially diving.

Chances of it happening? Nil

 

[Swansman]

Bin it

Drastically Increase post match punishments for blatant cheating
Mike up (and train and empower) the linos and 4th officials with each other. 4 of them should be able to spot anything blatantly wrong.

They have been miked up with eachother for 21 years.

 

[keaton]

If you watch non league or lower league football now (or when you could) it really hits you how negatively VAR has affected the top leagues

 

[zefarelly]

goal line tech, yes, video replays for the ref IF he wants to have a look . . . .. otherwise BIN IT.

I'd be happy to see a Ref look at a pitch side screen and make a call, make an announcement for all to see/hear and move on.

Its far more important at present, to have better trained and qualified officials.

 

[Deadly Danson]

When it was introduced I was in favour. I thought we'd rid ourselves of the Henry handballs, the two yards offsides and the punishment of divers. None of those things have been delivered. Handball and offside decisions are a joke, divers still throw themselves around happily, and what constitutes a foul is now in doubt. Human error is still very much part of the process, yet this is compounded by the time it takes to make a decision and even then with video evidence mistakes are still made.

VAR was brought in to deliver fairness and clean up controversy, it has FAILED to do so in a major way and has succeeded in sucking the joy out of the game at a time when won people need little excuse to lose interest in top flight football.

I'd rather stick with refs making human errors than put up with this crap anymore.

GET RID.

Agree with every word.

 

[Easy 10]

I never wanted it, and its actually worse than I'd ever imagined. The "clear and obvious" mantra was always the thin end of the wedge, it was obvious once they started looking at decisions that they'd take it to a ridiculously forensic level and beyond. There are occasions when it works well of course, when it actually does correct a clear error. But there is so much subjective marginal crap it gets involved with, the upsides are vastly outweighed by the downsides.

I hate the handball interpretations, I hate the pixel-width armpit offsides (which are in no way definitive). But I think most of all I hate the removal of spontaneous celebration, that rush we used to get when scoring a goal. Now, in the back of your mind, you know that while you're celebrating a goal, they are sat there in their little studio actively looking for a reason to disallow it.

Bin it.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Keep it FOR CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERRORS ONLY - as was the idea in the first ****ing place. i.e. stuff like the Henry handball vs Ireland.

Anything that isn't clear and obvious can stay with the ref's onfield decision.

It’s beyond me how the whole thing has gone further than this, it should be very simple, but they’ve completely over engineered the whole thing.

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

The media have been anti VAR from the start. It gives them something to talk about and it boosts the ego of the pundits to make disparaging comments about it. With VAR more decisions are technically right than without it, although of course it has many downsides. I say pause it for a year and review procedures whilst we see how the referees and their assistants can cope with offside and more particularly the intimidating cheats that we have for players and managers these days. Then we can have a better view as to whether its reintroduction would be of overall benefit.

 

[Stat Brother]

Stat is probably right. It certainly won't be withdrawn no matter how poor its use has been to this point.

Rule changes are needed to give it a chance. Clear daylight for offiside. Torso to Torso. Reintroduce intent into handball and the one thing they will find the hardest....produce referees and VAR refs who don't want to take centre stage, who can apply common bloody sense and will punish cheats and especially diving.

Chances of it happening? Nil

That's not my point.

My point is everything you and [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION] and others have suggested to make VAR 'work' are pretty much meaningless.

All your rule changes are open to the same interpretation, all you suggest is wholesale moving of the Titanic's deckchairs.


I guess taking my point to it's (il)logical conclusion would be:-

To make VAR work (which we have to because as we all agree isn't never going away)

Football needs to remove

- Live TV.
- Pundits.
- Slow motion.
- Critical analysis.
- Phone ins
- Review shows.

and so on.


Basically for VAR to work we need to remove all the aspects of the bloated swirling noise that engulfs the game, which caused VAR to be implemented in the first place.

 

[Easy 10]

The media have been anti VAR from the start. It gives them something to talk about and it boosts the ego of the pundits to make disparaging comments about it. With VAR more decisions are technically right than without it, although of course it has many downsides. I say pause it for a year and review procedures whilst we see how the referees and their assistants can cope with offside and more particularly the intimidating cheats that we have for players and managers these days. Then we can have a better view as to whether its reintroduction would be of overall benefit.

Football had already been dealing with all that for about a hundred years, and do you know what ? It was brilliant. Football WASN'T broken. We don't need a years pause to find that out. The vast majority of offsides were called correctly, and yes there would sometimes be the odd howler, but football is a game of chaos run by humans, so human error is a factor built in to the game. What we have discovered with VAR is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to eradicate human error because, well, its still a human making the decisions, whether that be on the pitch or in a studio.

If it was used to correct a decision where a ref or lino has properly dropped a bollock then fine. But its trying to make binary decisions on marginal calls of interpretation, resulting in the mess we have now.

I do like your idea in one way though - if we had a years pause from VAR, we'd at least get a year of having our game back.

 

[blue-shifted]

They have been miked up with eachother for 21 years.

And how often do you see the lino's use this technology to tell the ref to correct something?

They must see some of these cock ups. I keep coming back to the Villa Sheff U game last season. Lino must have seen it. Everyone did, but bottled it. Lino's are subservient and increasingly pointless. They even look at the ref before choosing who a throw should go to now. I think the only time a 4th official has ever intervened was Zizou. Even then he wasn't meant to. Why should this be?

In rugby, the dynamic between on field officials works brilliantly. We need to make it like that

 

[BBassic]

VAR, in principle is fine.

The inconsistencies in its application are the problem.

 

[blue-shifted]

That's not my point.

My point is everything you and [MENTION=12101]Mellotron[/MENTION] and others have suggested to make VAR 'work' are pretty much meaningless.

All your rule changes are open to the same interpretation, all you suggest is wholesale moving of the Titanic's deckchairs.


I guess taking my point to it's (il)logical conclusion would be:-

To make VAR work (which we have to because as we all agree isn't never going away)

Football needs to remove

- Live TV.
- Pundits.
- Slow motion.
- Critical analysis.
- Phone ins
- Review shows.

and so on.


Basically for VAR to work we need to remove all the aspects of the bloated swirling noise that engulfs the game, which caused VAR to be implemented in the first place.

Bollocks

We got rid of PPV. Football fans haven't organised and mobilised as successfully yet, but supporters overwhelmingly don't want it. If it will hit them in the pocket, it will go

 

[drew]

Years ago I was always against introducing video technology but then I saw how it worked in the world cups and am for it now. The problem isn't VAR, it is the quality of those that are operating the system, ie the PGMOL. If someone is an idiot on the pitch as a referee, who in their right mind expects them to improve when they can see a host of different angles in slow motion? Well, to be honest I was hoping that some of the inadequate referees would be able to see a difference but I'm being proved wrong.

I voted that there are somethings that need to be ironed out. The most obvious is the application with regard to offsides. Remove the laser precision lines that they place on the screen and rely purely on whether, with the naked eye you can see that it is clearly offside. I don't advocate the 'daylight' rule that some are in favour of as that is too much of an advantage to the attacker.

With regard to the referees, make them more accountable. Lamptey touches the back of Batshuayi with his hand and he drops like he's just been shot where as the following week Maguire bearhugs an opponent and gets away with it. We then had our match against Burnley (I think) when Trossard was held in the penalty and prevented from getting to the ball.

Maybe there should be more retired refs and footballs acting as the VAR and VAR assistant.

 

[Stat Brother]

And how often do you see the lino's use this technology to tell the ref to correct something?

They must see some of these cock ups. I keep coming back to the Villa Sheff U game last season. Lino must have seen it. Everyone did, but bottled it. Lino's are subservient and increasingly pointless. They even look at the ref before choosing who a throw should go to now. I think the only time a 4th official has ever intervened was Zizou. Even then he wasn't meant to. Why should this be?

The Lino's are miked up to the referees and they have a button on their flag which attracts the referees attention.
So for you to know what's going on with the lino you would need to be stood next to him and also be wired into the comm system.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Once again, I've been asked to gauge opinion on a hot topic of the day. In this instance, the FSA would like some kind of figures and data regarding the future of VAR. They are only after a broad snapshot for now, but they'd like your headline opinion on it.

This isn't about what constitutes a foul, or a penalty, or handball, or full-time whistles. It's about the use of VAR.

You can answer as many as you see fit.

Thanks in advance...

Can I specifically ask that you tell the FSA that "the horse is out of the toolshed"?

Thanks.

 

[Stat Brother]

Bollocks

We got rid of PPV. Football fans haven't organised and mobilised as successfully yet, but supporters overwhelmingly don't want it. If it will hit them in the pocket, it will go

I wish it were true, but it's not.

Much like PPV VAR is going nowhere, no matter what we collectively think about it.



PPV will be back, perhaps later this season, definitely next season.
It will be £10 (I doubt we'll be lucky enough to get it for a fiver).

 

[Swansman]

And how often do you see the lino's use this technology to tell the ref to correct something?

They must see some of these cock ups. I keep coming back to the Villa Sheff U game last season. Lino must have seen it. Everyone did, but bottled it. Lino's are subservient and increasingly pointless. They even look at the ref before choosing who a throw should go to now. I think the only time a 4th official has ever intervened was Zizou. Even then he wasn't meant to. Why should this be?

In rugby, the dynamic between on field officials works brilliantly. We need to make it like that

Refs communicate a lot more than most think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UR9wwqjbO1I

Ive also seen examples from the communication of the Swedish ref team from the last World Cup. A lot of talking. I.e. if there is a goal kick the linesman could say "follow the no 10 now, he uses his arms a lot in the duels" or whatever. Mostly the linesmen and ref communicating, but also occasionally the fourth official. Unlike in a lot of other sports there is no public access to what they are saying though, and I think that creates the impression that football refs dont communicate a lot.