[News] The future of faith: young people switched off?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Fascinating read. Too pished to offer anything more, just so productive to have a sensible chat.

Anytime later

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

This is a position(highlighted) you find yourself in today because you are forced to accept it as science shows the creation story is a lie, today christians will say its just a story(not all unfortunately), but a few hundred years ago you would have been forced to accept the reverse and that the creation story was gospel truth and would have argued it was true, saying otherwise would find you at the wrong end of a hot poker and probably in a duck weighing witchcraft trial scenario.You are a result of a softening of ideology and a realisation you must be open to criticism and must adapt, shame this thinking cant be employed across all religions.

I think I take your point, but the tone of the first sentence - "forced to accept......" - makes it sound as if I would be backsliding in to Creationism at the first opportunity, which is a million miles away from the truth.

But for many people in the Churches today (and in other faiths) it is far more about fairness, about values, about justice, about tolerance, about taking people (everyone) seriously. The Archbishop of Canterbury, no less, has published a book in the last few days - Reimagining Britain, Foundations for Hope - which is about Values that should guide our society - much more important than the Creation vs Evolution debate.

 

[Questions]

What was there before the big bang?

A few drinks, a long lingering kiss and then stampeding straight down to the clitoris.


...............

I sometimes wish I was a believer. It must be comforting I would think. It’s done wonders for my sister since she found Jesus. She’s much happier now. I used to debate the existence of an almighty with her but soon realised if you have ‘faith’ then in the main it’s unshakeable.
Interestingly she often differentiates between people who are religious and those who are Christians. I sort of get that bit. She does a lot of good things for people. She has always been alright but now she gets involved.

 

[BadFish]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9LHRfoIhTE

I like this idea of science's take on religion and a creator.

 

[pastafarian]

I think I take your point, but the tone of the first sentence - "forced to accept......" - makes it sound as if I would be backsliding in to Creationism at the first opportunity, which is a million miles away from the truth.

Tone was unintended,i accept plenty have moved on and have abandoned that part of scripture in the face of scientific evidence, and indeed have no intention of going back to what was considered truth previously.

But for many people in the Churches today (and in other faiths) it is far more about fairness, about values, about justice, about tolerance, about taking people (everyone) seriously. The Archbishop of Canterbury, no less, has published a book in the last few days - Reimagining Britain, Foundations for Hope - which is about Values that should guide our society - much more important than the Creation vs Evolution debate.

Young people dont need Jesus or God nowadays though to seek fairness, values, justice, tolerance or being taken seriously. They have facebook and social media, they have petitions and protest groups, they can join political parties with far more relevance to their lives. Dont get me wrong all those things are worthwhile seeking and fighting for but if you can see actual change,debate and discussion on a subject because you were part of an online voice or petition why would you need the words of the Archbishop of Canterbury on the same issues saying the church will help you, when you can simply help yourself.
I guess this is where the statistics of the church being less relevant to young people kicks in.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

So all of this is just one massive coincidence?

If it wasn't for a freakish explosion which was completely random there'd be no universe, no Gravity, no magnetic shift, no animal telepathy, no dream or nightmares, no art, no understanding of continuity and no sense of love?

I would love to know what the realistic odds were and causes of this extremely creative explosion which came out of nowhere? Sounds like something from the Matrix.

How comes there's ancient artefacts all over the world which symbolise and explain the universe as more than just a collision? Were they all in on the big lie? Even so we can't explain how and why any of these ancient artefacts were made, we somehow can explain how the universe was made? Sounds like we learnt to skip before we could walk.

Does anyone think our current society which is zombified by TV, Internet and Mobile phones might explain the growing rise in lower vibrational ideas?

That's so arrogant! Why does there have to be a meaning . God does bad things but it's not god it people because God gave them free will, well when I say free will I mean a set of rules that will get you into heaven but you still have free will as long as you choose gods way! The existance of God should be put to bed along with the over fairy stories . Why is a humans live going to heaven when the bacon sandwich you ate this morning isn't! Human arrogance which is why the world's a s***hole
As for ancient artifacts there were races of people praying to the sun, the wind and trees to try and make sense of things , why would it be obsurd to understand the thinking of people's beliefs hundreds and thousands of years ago, like saying if in a 1000 someone found a spinning top (I'm guessing they won't be popular over the next 1000 years) whoever finds it won't understand why we had it and explain it as a belief in ufo s!!

 

[Megazone]

That's so arrogant! Why does there have to be a meaning . God does bad things but it's not god it people because God gave them free will, well when I say free will I mean a set of rules that will get you into heaven but you still have free will as long as you choose gods way! The existance of God should be put to bed along with the over fairy stories . Why is a humans live going to heaven when the bacon sandwich you ate this morning isn't! Human arrogance which is why the world's a s***hole
As for ancient artifacts there were races of people praying to the sun, the wind and trees to try and make sense of things , why would it be obsurd to understand the thinking of people's beliefs hundreds and thousands of years ago, like saying if in a 1000 someone found a spinning top (I'm guessing they won't be popular over the next 1000 years) whoever finds it won't understand why we had it and explain it as a belief in ufo s!!

I'm not trying to be rude, but I can't quite work out wether you're saying that you do believe in some sort of God, or that you don't?

That's an interesting take on ancient artefacts. One I'll explore.

That's so arrogant! Why does there have to be a meaning . !

What if the meaning of life was to love? Now wouldn't that be good!

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

No, I mean every town, city and village

You get a lot of homeless people in villages do you?

Speaking as someone who worked in frontline homeless services for years- you’re wrong. As government provision has evaporated in recent years, the church has stepped up. The reason I asked whether you were referring to Brighton is that a) Brighton has a remarkably high homeless population and b) the provision from churches/Christian organisations is incredible.

This includes:
-2 day centres operating 5 days a week
-3 ‘drop in’ sessions elsewhere throughout the week
-night shelter project operating 7 days a week, October-March every year
-free meals every Saturday and Sunday
-outreach meals 365 days a year
-countless other outreach projects

This is in a city with a small Christian population.

Go to London, Oxford, Manchester etc and you’ll find church groups doing similar- I know this from experience of talking to homeless people over the years

It’s certainly not “isolated incidents” which you said as though it was a fact


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[jonnyrovers]

I share previous posters views re the meaning of life. It absolutely is human arrogance to debate a spiritual meaning, but that’s not to say we should ignore the debate on scientific reasoning for our existence.

Has anyone come across the theory that we don’t exist at all, and that we are a computer simulation being run by a future civilisation for the purpose of ancestor modelling. My only exposure to this theory is via ‘the infinite monkey cage’ so I’m certainly no expert, but the scientific fraternity seem consider it seriously, and it fits with Hugh Everett’s increasingly popular ‘many worlds’ theory.


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[daveinprague]

You get a lot of homeless people in villages do you?

Speaking as someone who worked in frontline homeless services for years- you’re wrong. As government provision has evaporated in recent years, the church has stepped up. The reason I asked whether you were referring to Brighton is that a) Brighton has a remarkably high homeless population and b) the provision from churches/Christian organisations is incredible.

This includes:
-2 day centres operating 5 days a week
-3 ‘drop in’ sessions elsewhere throughout the week
-night shelter project operating 7 days a week, October-March every year
-free meals every Saturday and Sunday
-outreach meals 365 days a year
-countless other outreach projects

This is in a city with a small Christian population.

Go to London, Oxford, Manchester etc and you’ll find church groups doing similar- I know this from experience of talking to homeless people over the years

It’s certainly not “isolated incidents” which you said as though it was a fact


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All the churches? No. They could do a lot more. If there is one thing the church should be doing, with the billions of pounds it has accumulated, is open its doors to the needy. That includes all the religions..
Respect to your work incidentally.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Maybe some traditional Churches are in decline but others are growing across all age groups. They'll be more Christians gathering for the Big Church Day Out at Whiston House in West Sussex than we get at the Amex for example.
https://youtu.be/TPCsPkGhak8

 

[pastafarian]

I think the three wise men might have something to say about gift giving not having anything to do with Christmas.

There is nothing biblical to say there was three of them, might have been twelve wise men and nine were tight fisted with the present giving or just didnt know what to give, giving gifts is difficult at the best of times let alone for a messiah.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Tone was unintended,i accept plenty have moved on and have abandoned that part of scripture in the face of scientific evidence, and indeed have no intention of going back to what was considered truth previously.



Young people dont need Jesus or God nowadays though to seek fairness, values, justice, tolerance or being taken seriously. They have facebook and social media, they have petitions and protest groups, they can join political parties with far more relevance to their lives. Dont get me wrong all those things are worthwhile seeking and fighting for but if you can see actual change,debate and discussion on a subject because you were part of an online voice or petition why would you need the words of the Archbishop of Canterbury on the same issues saying the church will help you, when you can simply help yourself.
I guess this is where the statistics of the church being less relevant to young people kicks in.

I actually agree entirely.

I work for a Christian organisation locally and the main thrust of what I do is about the Churches being interested in and involved in the wider community, but not from the point of overtly evangelising, more from the point of view of being useful, helping people who need help, addressing local issues, and in conjunction with other 9secular) agencies.

I have more than once as a preacher doubted the concept of "justification by faith", the notion that, whatever you do in life, the onlt thing which is going to gain you "salvation" is a faith in God. It is a doctrine also upheld by John Wesley, who was an Anglican priest all his life, but who founded the Methodist Church because his views on Justice, Social Values and the value of ordinary people were beyond the pail at the time. I am uncomfortable with justification by faith precisely because it means that many people I come in to contact with who are doing excellent work alongside people who really need help are either of no particular faith or (even worse ) atheists, and I am appalled that their road to heaven (if there is such thing) is barred for that one reason.

It would also mean some people I know who are less "nice" would get there....... and less nice could hide a multitude of sins.

And when I have said things like that from the pulpit, I get a lot of agreement from thinking people. I would also, though, be the first to admit that it probably depends on the individual Church........

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

There is nothing biblical to say there was three of them, might have been twelve wise men and nine were tight fisted with the present giving or just didnt know what to give, giving gifts is difficult at the best of times let alone for a messiah.

Have you done a Theology Degree? You are of course quite right.

 

[5ways]

I'm not religious but I don't think the decline of religion is necessarily a good thing. Religious charities do so much unpaid community work and maintain wonderful historic sites.

 

[pastafarian]

Have you done a Theology Degree? You are of course quite right.

No, just read the Bible and remembered some bits. Its a cracking read even if its a bit fruity and contradictive in places.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I actually agree entirely.

I work for a Christian organisation locally and the main thrust of what I do is about the Churches being interested in and involved in the wider community, but not from the point of overtly evangelising, more from the point of view of being useful, helping people who need help, addressing local issues, and in conjunction with other 9secular) agencies.

I have more than once as a preacher doubted the concept of "justification by faith", the notion that, whatever you do in life, the onlt thing which is going to gain you "salvation" is a faith in God. It is a doctrine also upheld by John Wesley, who was an Anglican priest all his life, but who founded the Methodist Church because his views on Justice, Social Values and the value of ordinary people were beyond the pail at the time. I am uncomfortable with justification by faith precisely because it means that many people I come in to contact with who are doing excellent work alongside people who really need help are either of no particular faith or (even worse ) atheists, and I am appalled that their road to heaven (if there is such thing) is barred for that one reason.

It would also mean some people I know who are less "nice" would get there....... and less nice could hide a multitude of sins.

And when I have said things like that from the pulpit, I get a lot of agreement from thinking people. I would also, though, be the first to admit that it probably depends on the individual Church........

This is a great example of living by faith. George Muller founded the Orphan Homes in Bristol. He was disreputable before becoming a minister, but wanted to care for ophans once he became a minister. He never asked for a penny in donations, but prayed for the money to come in. Thousands of children went through the homes and were cared for.

https://www.about-bristol.co.uk/ash-01.asp

 

[Bold Seagull]

This is a great example of living by faith. George Muller founded the Orphan Homes in Bristol. He was disreputable before becoming a minister, but wanted to care for ophans once he became a minister. He never asked for a penny in donations, but prayed for the money to come in. Thousands of children went through the homes and were cared for.

https://www.about-bristol.co.uk/ash-01.asp

Probably best not to dive too deep into the history of religious institutions and children's care homes.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

I'm not trying to be rude, but I can't quite work out wether you're saying that you do believe in some sort of God, or that you don't?

That's an interesting take on ancient artefacts. One I'll explore.



What if the meaning of life was to love? Now wouldn't that be good!

Agree love and understanding would be good which is why we don't need imaginary friends, maybe if people didn't have religion to blame for their politics,greed and war we could all realise we have one life and all get on

 

[Bold Seagull]

Love this from former Sneaker Pimps Chris Corner, who was self admittedly obsessed with the late Christopher Hitchens and penned this tribute. Wonderful lyrics, haunting track. An excuse to post it really...

I salute you Christopher
I salute your life
How you played the dice

Your words will live in us
Timelessly insane
Explosive, fresh and wise

Some will just forget
Some will close their eyes
Some will turn the tide

I salute you Christopher
Whiskey raised and downed
You risked and you took the crown

Console yourselves
That a scientific death is better than a fairy-tale
Of the eternal life

Control yourselves
Because the man in the sky is a tyrant and a lonely psychopath
Dreamed up to steal your minds

A horseman on a trial
A brilliant gentle wreck
With a brutal mouth for press

No submit, no compromise
Saint Christopher of the truth
And a destroyer of smoke screens and threats

They will learn to see in time
They will think before they refuse
The civilisation rules

I salute you Christopher
I declare you as our king
Or queen, depending on your mood