[Albion] The Five Clarifications

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If you're over it, good for you. Do you want to write to Bloom and Barber and tell them to get over it too?

If those decisions cost us a place in the CL or Europa, I dare say that our fans will not be over it when our best players leave because they want to play in Europe.

Well said. I'm glad that the club is sticking it to them. I really don't think the club will let this one drop.

That said if I were PGMOL I would say that the two handball calls were the honest opinion of the VAR referee. These were very difficult decisions to call and we have no 'err on the side of the attacker' rubric. The shirt pull decision is again a judgement issue. Yes it was a shirt pull but the Brighton player wasn't near enough to to ball to have been able to affect play. The Mitoma penalty was not adjudged a penalty by VAR because the referee clearly had good sight of the incident so VAR did not check the decision. In retrospect this was a mistake and had the referee checked the video he may have awarded a penalty. But we cannot be certain.

Easy! PGMOIL should give me a job.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I imagine there are some people in charge of the PGMOL who are thinking along the same lines as you, so might try to brush it under the carpet - but I disagree. I think that admitting mistakes gives you more credability. I think they should seek clarification from Michael Salisbury on why he made the calls he did, and assuming there's no good reasons (because there aren't) I think he should be suspended, fined the wages he was paid, sent for re-training, or fired completely. That would give more credability to the system IMO. A position that says when humans get it that wrong, they will be punished. Simply pretending it didn't happen does not give credability.

This.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Check out Stellini who was banned for two and a half years for match fixing in 2012.
I am not saying for one moment he had any influence on Saturday’s game, but he isn’t Mr Innocent.

Stellini is a proven match fixer. We had a minimum of 5 key marginal decisions go against us. It's not a huge leap of faith to join the dots?

 

[Fungus]

Club are subtly reminding everyone that they haven't forgotten. Best view I've seen of the Spurs handball too.

Edit: I'm a doofus and I see this was posted on page one of this thread. Oh well, it's a reminder for anyone too lazy to read the whole thing!!

I’ve watched that a dozen times and still can’t decide whether Veltman handles it himself.

 

[peterward]

The same benefits that Manchester United beating us and Manchester City winning in the Semi Final provide. Enormous payday, global event.

When Burnley played in Europe, they did approximately 1/50th of the viewing figures every other club from England did. This impacts advertising revenue to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds when it comes to the Champions League. Leicester were exactly the same; a fraction of the figures in Asian markets compared to Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham.

Having the big clubs at the top of the table is good by any conceivable metric for the Premier League. Their entire model is based around Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham subsidising the smaller clubs.

The huge transfer fees, the wages, the television money - all of it comes from international and domestic syndication rights. Fulham vs Crystal Palace is worth pennies compared to Manchester United vs Liverpool.

It is the very idea behind the European Super League; two tiers of clubs. Those who sell huge money slots in markets and those who don’t.

It is absolutely in the Premier League’s interest to keep the biggest clubs at the top of the tree.

brilliant post

 

[Fungus]

I run a weekly 6-a-side football match.
Two of the players are spurs fans.
Both of them have been given a one-match ban for the next game.

Ha, I played football with a Spurs fan on Saturday morning, then we teamed up for a pub quiz on Saturday evening. At least he had the sense not to wear his Kane tee-shirt, but I’m a bit peeved at sharing the £100 first prize with him!

 

[jcdenton08]

Ha, I played football with a Spurs fan on Saturday morning, then we teamed up for a pub quiz on Saturday evening. At least he had the sense not to wear his Kane tee-shirt, but I’m a bit peeved at sharing the £100 first prize with him!

At least the quizmaster didn’t rob you at gunpoint, take your share and hand it over to him.

 

[willalbion]

Going by the list previously supplied, whilst seeing the flaws in it, City/Spurs have had the 2nd and third worst VAR luck this season, I can't recall heads rolling after any of those games.

I doubt they had 5 or 6 big calls go against them in one game.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Maybe we shouldn't bother with referees at all, and just have a free for all fight for the ball. No rules, no holes barred. Last man left alive wins.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I’ve watched that a dozen times and still can’t decide whether Veltman handles it himself.

Despite the fact Veltman immediately appeals and Lenglet doesn't?

 

[DJ NOBO]

I’ve watched that a dozen times and still can’t decide whether Veltman handles it himself.

It’s the Spurs player’s hand.
Instant Player reaction should remove any doubt.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The key point about the explanations is that they contradict each other.

Mitoma's goal -Decison: Doesn't overrule onfield decision -
PGMOL: "not enough evidence to overrule the onfield decision."
Club: "Really?, looks quite clear, ok so how about MacAllister's goal?

Decison:- VAR Overrules the onfield decision -
Club: " So there's less evidence here to overrule, why did you?" -
PGMOL: "err...."
Club: "Ok we'll give you a few minutes, how about the Lenglet handball?"

Decision: - VAR does not overrule again.
PGMOL - "Accidental - no real advantage gained - understandable his hand was there"
Club: "Don't agree, but if that's the case, how about the Dunk penalty? Two hands pulling the player's shirt impeding him getting to the ball? "

Decison - VAR didn't intervene
PGMOL: "errr..."
Club: " Nothing?? Ok then, Oh but thanks for apologising for the Mitoma penalty, as if that was the only thing that happened. Classy of you."

This is it. It wasn't just that the wrong decisions were made but that the only possible explanations are contradictory. It is much worse than decisions simply being wrong. The rubric has been varied so that Brighton loses out in each and ever instance. They are going to have to wriggle quite specifically to escape having to admit to incompetence here.

 

[zefarelly]

Maybe we shouldn't bother with referees at all, and just have a free for all fight for the ball. No rules, no holes barred. Last man left alive wins.

That's not far off Saturdays game anyway. Both sides should have been down to 10 men and we would have won 4-2

 

[Deadly Danson]

It’s the Spurs player’s hand.
Instant Player reaction should remove any doubt.

It's the only one that I'm less sure of. He definitely handles it but I'm not sure it warrants an intervention and I would be very annoyed if that went against us. HOWEVER, given VAR was able to disallow 2 goals for handballs that weren't then there is no reason for them not to give this one.

 

[Da Man Clay]

It's the only one that I'm less sure of. He definitely handles it but I'm not sure it warrants an intervention and I would be very annoyed if that went against us. HOWEVER, given VAR was able to disallow 2 goals for handballs that weren't then there is no reason for them not to give this one.

its never a penalty IMO. Personally think the Dunk one is a bit questionable too to be honest as he’s never getting to the ball and thrown himself to the ground although I’m probably on my own there!

The Mac disallowed goal and the Mitoma penalty though are absolute baffling decisions.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

This is it. It wasn't just that the wrong decisions were made but that the only possible explanations are contradictory. It is much worse than decisions simply being wrong. The rubric has been varied so that Brighton loses out in each and ever instance. They are going to have to wriggle quite specifically to escape having to admit to incompetence here.

incompetence is the best interpretation for them, ironically.

 

[Justice]

Darren Cann isn’t allowed to officiate Palace games no surprise he rules out Mitoma’s goal.
After the storm I’m with Stuart Pierce don’t let it effect us move on and we can still achieve European football.

 

[DJ NOBO]

It's the only one that I'm less sure of. He definitely handles it but I'm not sure it warrants an intervention and I would be very annoyed if that went against us. HOWEVER, given VAR was able to disallow 2 goals for handballs that weren't then there is no reason for them not to give this one.

If he clearly handballs it (which the footage suggests he does) why is that not a clear an obvious error by onfield ref (Warranting VAR intervention)?
Perhaps there is a handball subrule that means no foul (HWT suggested this earlier) - For example the handball didn’t put Brighton at disadvantage? There are certainly vagaries when it comes to what is and what isnt a handball.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There has been plenty of chances for Chelsea/Liverpool to be given more chances for points on tight games.

You have elegantly demonstrated one more reason why it is not a conspiracy.

It (the bad decisions against spuds) is simply unconscious (with a bit of conscious) bias.

Also it seems it me we (NSC chatting) are conflating two things. One is the appalling and repeated and inexplicable and inconsistently excusable decisions against Spuds, and the other is the reason for this. If one starts pondering the latter then, if a reason can't be proven then it becomes possible to argue that the mistakes are just part of life's rich tapestry and we should jog on.

I suspect the club is clear mindedly asking how the decisions were made, and how they map to the rules of the game. Never ask why in a context such as this unless you can supply evidence of a conspiracy.

 

[7dialssouthpaw]

Then why have the PL allowed Chelsea to be 10th and Liverpool 8th?

The biggest club in the country and the biggest story at the moment.

If what you have said is accurate they would be doing all they could to help them.

Chelsea were never in the club - Liverpool will likely get back to top 6 before the season ends.