The Falklands

[ROSM]

Maybe it's time to make friends with Chile, if only we hadn't given protection to that nice General Pinochet who was friends with Maggie.

Maybe that's something else she got right?

 

[Dr Q]

But ... if there IS oil in them there waters, how the hell is it going to be extracted without the facilities of a major land terminal that is connected to the rest of the world?

Nobody can imagine, surely, that the village of Port Stanley is up to the job? Maybe, just maybe, it's time for some real international co-operation?

IF, they find commerical oil, production would be via FSPO's, basically a converted oil tanker that recieves the oil from the sea bed, cools and degases it and then its pumped into another tanker for transport (I would expect to Brazil given their huge oil industry at the moment). I doubt the oil would ever make it to the Falklands!

 

[withdeanwombat]

I think it is something to do with the potential oil exploration - Thatcher got it right (yet again)

Oh come on! Thatcher's govt started to WITHDRAW our pieces in the South Atlantic which led the Argentines to believe that Britain was no longer interested in the Malvinas and other "possessions".

So they tentatively put some of their pieces there instead,at which point some Tory think tank advised the Milk Snatcher that there was oil in the area and votes to be won.

About turn,everybody,........et voila! War in the South Atlantic which would never have happened with a decent government in office,or even a Tory one which had not squabbled so much about a leader that they were willing to allow this petty minded woman to lead the govt rather than open summer fairs(which she would also probably have cocked up.)

 

[ROSM]

In 1977 it became clear that just ahead of the 78 world cup, the Argentine Junta felt 'safe' in launching a bid for the islands. The Government of the day and the Foreign Secretary (David Owen) felt it necessary to quietly send a task force to the South Atlantic. Any diplomat worth their salt would have known that to make cuts in the day to day cover expended on the Falklands would have given a message to the Argentinians that the Brits no longer cared.

 

[daveinprague]

When the British government were aware of the Argentinian Invasion, they merely needed to imply that a nuclear submarine was patrolling the area, as a previous labour government had done, and the invasion wouldnt have occurred.. the war helped both governments in the beginning...a military junta in Buenos Aires that was failing, and a civilian junta in London running out of popularity....

 

[beorhthelm]

When the British government were aware of the Argentinian Invasion, they merely needed to imply that a nuclear submarine was patrolling the area, as a previous labour government had done, and the invasion wouldnt have occurred.. the war helped both governments in the beginning...a military junta in Buenos Aires that was failing, and a civilian junta in London running out of popularity....

nuclear deterent doesnt work like that, as you'd have to be willing to use it and the opponent would have to believe this too. no one would have believed the UK would go nuclear over a remote island outpost (unless maybe the island in question was the Isle of Wight?)

all this suggestion that the Falkands war was setup is quite amusing. it suggests far too much forward planning and organisation for what would be a fairly high risk strategy. consider a cockup before a conspiracy.

 

[daveinprague]

Nuclear attack submarines carry torpedoes...as did the Conquerer... the threat of an attack submarine in the area would have deterred any invasion force.
Nothing to do with nuclear weapon capability.
War suited both the governments for home consumption.

 

[little al]

But ... if there IS oil in them there waters, how the hell is it going to be extracted without the facilities of a major land terminal that is connected to the rest of the world?

Nobody can imagine, surely, that the village of Port Stanley is up to the job? Maybe, just maybe, it's time for some real international co-operation?

Aberdeen was a small fishing village not so long ago.

Just a thought.

 

[User removed 4]

nuclear deterent doesnt work like that, as you'd have to be willing to use it and the opponent would have to believe this too. no one would have believed the UK would go nuclear over a remote island outpost (unless maybe the island in question was the Isle of Wight?)

all this suggestion that the Falkands war was setup is quite amusing. it suggests far too much forward planning and organisation for what would be a fairly high risk strategy. consider a cockup before a conspiracy.

Dave was in the navy, he'd know !!

 

[daveinprague]

Not so certain bushy... was sitting on nuclear bombs when I was on the Ark Royal, and it never even occurred to me haha
But, they would never have tried an invasion with the prospect of losing a lot of ships to patrolling submarines in the area.

 

[ROSM]

Isn't the General Belgrano the only ship ever sunk in conflict by a Nuclear powered submarine? The Argentine navy had no defence from Submarines in the 1980s although they did have stacks of weapons and planes sold to them by France.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Think my point was slightly badly explained last night.

I just find it interesting that countries (and not just Britain, although it is a common offender) can plant their own population in an area (Ulster, Gibraltar, Falklands), and then claim it as their own based on the wishes - and yet would obviously feel uncomfortable exploring a similar idea if it was to take place in contemporary times in their own backyard.

Drawing parallels to 1916 is slightly off the point (although unsurprising given the poster) as there you had sovereignty imposed on an indiginous population that were adverse to it - which is not what this debate is about.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

The irish didnt seem to espouse that theory in 1916 did they? make your f***ing mind up mate, and while your at it why not take your snidey 'strange concept to the british' type remarks and '800 years of oppression' chip on your shoulder and f*** off to an irish football team site ?

I live in Brighton. I support Brighton. This is a Brighton site.

I was under the impression that you didn't have to sign up to a nationality and politcal view in order to support a football club. If other posters disagree, then I will happily leave everyone to burning books and saluting pictures of Thatcher as you wish.

 

[User removed 4]

Not so certain bushy... was sitting on nuclear bombs when I was on the Ark Royal, and it never even occurred to me haha
But, they would never have tried an invasion with the prospect of losing a lot of ships to patrolling submarines in the area.

I know mate, i was just saying that you'd know that a nuclear submarine was nuclear powered and not necessarily carrying polaris or trident whatever it was then ! did you do your 22 ??

 

[User removed 4]

Think my point was slightly badly explained last night.

I just find it interesting that countries (and not just Britain, although it is a common offender) can plant their own population in an area (Ulster, Gibraltar, Falklands), and then claim it as their own based on the wishes - and yet would obviously feel uncomfortable exploring a similar idea if it was to take place in contemporary times in their own backyard.

Drawing parallels to 1916 is slightly off the point (although unsurprising given the poster) as there you had sovereignty imposed on an indiginous population that were adverse to it - which is not what this debate is about.

So in your badly explained point from last night, are you suggesting that the residents of bradford with an asian background feel more loyalty/empathy with pakistan than britain ?

 

[User removed 4]

I live in Brighton. I support Brighton. This is a Brighton site.

I was under the impression that you didn't have to sign up to a nationality and politcal view in order to support a football club. If other posters disagree, then I will happily leave everyone to burning books and saluting pictures of Thatcher as you wish.

And exactly how do you think snide comments from me, on for instance, cobh rangers site, about ireland's greatest export being unemployment would be met ? with open arms ? of course not, but then i'd have the good sense not to make the said snide comments.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

So in your badly explained point from last night, are you suggesting that the residents of bradford with an asian background feel more loyalty/empathy with pakistan than britain ?

I have no idea - its not an example I should have delved into.

But just supposing in this current era of mass migration and open borders, a region of Britain felt they wanted to secede from the country in the not too distant future as they wanted to answer to another government would you accept it? Of course not, and quite rightly. But yet its an argument used to inarguably justify sovereignty elsewhere.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

And exactly how do you think snide comments from me, on for instance, cobh rangers site, about ireland's greatest export being unemployment would be met ? with open arms ? of course not, but then i'd have the good sense not to make the said snide comments.

It wouldn't go down well of course. However I didn't make any points about British people or culture -simply about the legacy of British imperialism, opinions I know are shared by many keen British citizens/England football fans.

The bottom line here is that whilst I might be an Irish citizen and have different political views to yourself, I am a law-abiding, hardworking, tax-paying member of Britain's society, and not some sort of dangerous rebel who needs your approval to open my mouth.

Brighton and Hove Albion isn't a political club, lets keep it that way.

 

[daveinprague]

I know mate, i was just saying that you'd know that a nuclear submarine was nuclear powered and not necessarily carrying polaris or trident whatever it was then ! did you do your 22 ??

No, I was only in there for 6... bought myself out after returning from the fright that was DaNang and Saigon evacuations.
Which brought on an evacuation of my own. Joined for the travel, not to be a target haha

 

[clapham_gull]

As for Thatcher 'getting it right' about the Falklands, unfortunately the history books will prove otherwise. Her government was warned not to cut defence around there (which was ignored) and before the conflict* we were negotiating to offload them anyway.

Huge f@ck up by the government at the time which was let off the hook by our armed forces quick thinking and planning, something Thatcher wasn't obviously capable off in conjunction with the islands.

... and then she had the cheek to take the claim and reap the benefits of regaining sovereignty. Remarkable !



* Technically not a war, since it was never declared.