The EU- the definitive NSC referendum

[daveinprague]

Then wouldnt we be effectively a vassel of the USA? Even more so than now already? Swapping being a member of the EU, in order to be an overseas American 'State', doesnt really make much sense to me.

 

[cunning fergus]

Cunningfergus..no, im just wondering what it is that we offer the world, and to be honest, I cant think of too much that would keep the country economically viable in todays world...
Its not an antagonistic question, really... just curious as to how our economy would go....not sure that our car 'industry' would be enough.
Which car manufacturers in the UK are British owned? There cant be that many..
It scares me that anything that we manufacture, as an independent trading partner to anybody, could well be undercut, and better made elsewhere.

No worries........

I guess I would say the UK offers the world a top 10 developed economy which is agressively capitalist in nature and with a significant percentage of free spending consumers (hence the high rates of personal debt).

Until the developing world catches up with that dynamic in UK we will still be an attractive destination for exports from other international businesses and so long as that is the case, then there is a quid pro quo for British exporters. Its my view that that position would generally apply whether we were in or out of the EU.

We have a highly skilled workforce (generally biased towards services and finance these days) and an attractive labour market with little constraints/overheads on employers (as you know I personally dont agree with all of that).

I have posted on here many times about the fallacy of job security of the EU; only a year or so ago Ford made thousands of staff redundant across the EU to move manufacturing from the UK, Belgium, Spain and Germany to a plant in Turkey (outside the EU). A plant that was paid for with the help of EU money, see the question raised in Parliament by a UK MEP.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=WQ&reference=E-2012-011072&language=EN

We are already being undercut...............

 

[daveinprague]

so, if our cars are being undercut, theres not much left is there really...
I understand the reasons people dont like the EU, but tbh, I think the alternative is terrifying.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

so, if our cars are being undercut, theres not much left is there really...
I understand the reasons people dont like the EU, but tbh, I think the alternative is terrifying.

Cars are fairly well down the list of our main exports though.

 

[daveinprague]

Yeah, buts what im asking...what do we actually have to offer? im not trying to be flippant, or argumentative, theres no point on these threads, as nobody will change anybodies minds either way i dont think...but im not sure the UK would manage so well on its on, in a global economy, the way it is at present

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Then wouldnt we be effectively a vassel of the USA? Even more so than now already? Swapping being a member of the EU, in order to be an overseas American 'State', doesnt really make much sense to me.

It would allow us to be big headed

 

[Hamilton]

Yeah, buts what im asking...what do we actually have to offer? im not trying to be flippant, or argumentative, theres no point on these threads, as nobody will change anybodies minds either way i dont think...but im not sure the UK would manage so well on its on, in a global economy, the way it is at present

I think we offer a lot in terms of research and development, and design. We've got bags of experience in the development of nanotechnology and biochemistry. We do a lot of automotive R&D work (forget building the things, we work in the development of the design and that's where we should be), and we have a lot of experience in the development of software design - things like GPS tracking systems etc. We've also proven to be able to develop in areas like Genetically Modified materials R&D.

I think the government should be looking at these high end services and investing much much more in these areas. making it unbelievably attractive for firms to invest in these areas in the UK. We should then be providing the training and education so that we're continuing to build the workforce that can serve in these industries.

In my own industry - marketing and design - the UK is incredibly far advanced. The UK seen as a number in creative services. I'm continually picking up work from firms based abroad who would rather use UK (and I have to say London-based) agencies because of that creative expertise.

How's that? And I didn't need to mention Finance.

 

[Hamilton]

I'll add, that just because we offer this, it doesn't mean I think we should exit the EU. So many other businesses (us included) rely on the ease of business with the EU. For example, the OJEC system offers us plenty of scope for business development and I wouldn't want to see that disappear.

 

[cunning fergus]

so, if our cars are being undercut, theres not much left is there really...
I understand the reasons people dont like the EU, but tbh, I think the alternative is terrifying.

I think loss of sovereignty is far more terrifying Dave, and I am amazed at how unconcerned many people are on here with the prospect of surrendering this precious commodity for another phase of an untested political experiment.

Its not like we have not had a look under the skirt either is it.....................

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/09/15/uk-italy-politics-eu-idUKBRE98E07I20130915

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100710555

http://tbo.com/ap/world/protests-of...onomic_crisis9baf7cd9774f4a5c880adcda78377d5d

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ges-in-hungary-and-cypriot-debt-a-889067.html

So given a choice of "splendid isolation" or "chained to a corpse"....................I know which is more terrifying.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'll add, that just because we offer this, it doesn't mean I think we should exit the EU. So many other businesses (us included) rely on the ease of business with the EU. For example, the OJEC system offers us plenty of scope for business development and I wouldn't want to see that disappear.

And yet non-EU members such as Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein have EXACTLY the same capabilities and rights under OJEC as EU members.

 

[Hamilton]

And yet non-EU members such as Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein have EXACTLY the same capabilities and rights under OJEC as EU members.

I don't know enough about that to comment, but I do know that the OJEC system has been great in helping us to find contracts and my understanding was that it was a great tool for European businesses. That's all I knew. I know a bit more now.

 

[GreersElbow]

Far too simplistic to say in or out.

What if we can re-negotiate our position and get a better deal? Then I'd be in favour of that. An USE? Sod that, a 'unified' Europe is more likely to lead to internal conflict than nation level conflict.

In - The sooner people understand that the world has changed, the better.

"Web of alliances".

The most simplistic argument out there, no backing, nothing. The world hasn't changed that much, the balance of power is just shifting to Asia. Forming political blocs is an incredibly dangerous thing to do when we're probably coming up to a volatile period of the modern age. The U.S.A for the first time is not only being challenged over its hegemony, it's actually being taken over in terms of holding hegemony over the world.

The U.S has put 60% of its naval fleet into the Asia-Pacific and put more marines into the region, since China has become more powerful, the U.S has become a little more provocative, such as the incursion with the B-52 bomber in Chinese airspace after the Chinese 'extended' their waters.

China's in a bloc of its own, let's not delude ourselves and think they're a one-man show, they're close to the Russians. As we saw with Syria, the Russians played a difficult game and were very confrontational on the issue of Syria and Western intervention, the Russians are also forming the Eurasian Union in which they control much of the economic power. The recent protests in Ukraine have been over such union, which has lead to domestic conflict.

The world political economy is all about balance of power and trade, unfortunately blocs of nations only tip the scales in the direction of power which inevitably leads to conflict.

 

[Seasidesage]

but not voting for the person that will TELL you what you can do? Seriously, don't you see that? If you don't you are sleep walking to dictatorship!

What genuine political choice do you think you are getting now? I've no time for UKIP polices but at least they provide an actual alternative. Think they will ever form a government in this country? Not a chance. The other parties offer a differing selection of ex public schoolboys most of whom have not had a real job, all of whom have no understanding or empathy with the majority of the British population...

No wonder Politics is becoming more and more detached from peoples day to day lives...

 

[goldstone]

I believe in this country as a separate entity to Europe. I believe in self determination. I believe in the right to vote for who governs me. And I agree with this post.

Europe is a bureaucratic nightmare. I do not want to be involved in any kind on "union" with the rest of Europe, except perhaps a free trade arrangement ... which I recall was the whole idea in the first place.

I am not "European", I am English firstly and British secondly. I have nothing more in common with the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians, etc (except for a geographical proximity) than I do the South Koreans, the Japanese, or the Brazilians.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

In purely for work purposes as we are a multinational company

YOU STILL CAN BE , that's just a cop out i'm afraid ,
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

i'll add, that just because we offer this, it doesn't mean i think we should exit the eu. So many other businesses (us included) rely on the ease of business with the eu. For example, the ojec system offers us plenty of scope for business development and i wouldn't want to see that disappear.

how did we ever cope before we joined the EU
Regards
DR

 

[Cheshire Cat]

how did we ever cope before we joined the EU
Regards
DR

Quite badly I recall.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Very definitely In with a capital I and a capital N. I have been a convinced European for about 45 years, since i was in the 6th form at school, and think that any move to do otherwise would be nationally suicidal.

And i also believe that we could be part of a United States of Europe, if that were ever to happen, while still retaining our own national identity and not becoming part of an amorphous mass of Europeans.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Quite badly I recall.

mmmmmmm we've been through 3 recessions whilst we've been members haven't we ,AND TO TOP IT OFF BAILING OTHER COUNTRIES OUT
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

very definitely in with a capital i and a capital n. I have been a convinced european for about 45 years, since i was in the 6th form at school, and think that any move to do otherwise would be nationally suicidal.

And i also believe that we could be part of a united states of europe, if that were ever to happen, while still retaining our own national identity and not becoming part of an amorphous mass of europeans.

retaining our national identity ......... You couldn't make it up
regards
DR