The establishment and historic child sex abuse

[pastafarian]

i am starting to believe i am going insane

 

[bWize]

i am starting to believe i am going insane

The truth will set you free!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Any chance of getting this thread back on topic? It is supposed to be about the Elm Guest House Child Abuse allegations, not conspiracy theories about Tony Blair.

 

[dingodan]

that Blair was groomed by the bilderberg group.....with their masonic illuminati agenda?

If you are wealthy/powerful & you want to influence governments, you invite up and coming politicians whom you expect (or maybe will help) to rise to power, to a closed door weekend of golf and "chats".

Maybe Blair became PM all on his own and the Bilderbergers are amazing political "scouts"? Maybe the clout & cash that he was able to befriend @ Bilderberg helped him to get to be PM?

Either way, it stinks of corruption.

 

[Giraffe]

Based on the original question I would say the only gains are for UKIP.

As far as I can see this story just once again tarnishes the old guard of politics and therefore could potentially mean more people are disenchanted with politics and therefore either don't vote or vote for a fringe protest party like UKIP.

 

[dingodan]

Based on the original question I would say the only gains are for UKIP.

As far as I can see this story just once again tarnishes the old guard of politics and therefore could potentially mean more people are disenchanted with politics and therefore either don't vote or vote for an alternative party like UKIP.

Corrected.

 

[dingodan]

Theresa May is to outline plans for a "wide-ranging" inquiry, led by an expert panel, into historic child sex abuse claims, the BBC understands.

The BBC's Nick Robinson said the inquiry would look at claims covering the government, the NHS and the BBC.

The inquiry would be held in public but evidence would not be given under oath.

The home secretary will also tell MPs about a separate review of whether her department failed to act on claims of a paedophile ring in the 1980s.

Mrs May's statement to MPs is expected at 15:30 BST.

The home secretary is also set to announce a review into public bodies and their duty of care towards children.

Chancellor George Osborne told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the investigation would go "as far as it needs to go".

"People can be absolutely clear, these are very, very serious matters, we take them very seriously, we want to get to the truth and nothing but the truth, and we will do it in an independent and authoritative way."

Labour has been calling for a full public inquiry into the various child sex abuse claims from the past. Shadow home Secretary Yvette Cooper told BBC Radio 5Live she would have to wait and see the full details of the inquiry being planned.

However, she welcomed reports that it would be wide-ranging and cover all the various allegations - as long as a police investigations into specific claims continued.

"Whether it's in the NHS about Savile, whether it's the BBC, whether it's in the Home Office, we need to make sure that all the lessons are learned so that we can have a strong enough child protection system for the future."
Lessons learned

BBC Political Editor Nick Robinson said the form of the inquiry could be similar in style to the Hillsborough inquiry - with experts taking evidence mostly in public.

It would not be a full judge-led public inquiry, such as the Leveson or the Hutton inquiries which had witnesses giving evidence under oath, he said.

Ministers have so far rejected calls for an over-arching public inquiry into the various abuse allegations from the era, pointing to ongoing police investigations.

Nick Clegg: 'Nothing more revolting than people in power working with each other, possibly covering up'

Over the weekend it was announced that a senior legal figure from outside Whitehall is to look again into a Home Office review last year of any information it received in the 1980s and 1990s about organised child sex abuse.

It is to look at what happened to a dossier of abuse claims reportedly passed to then Home Secretary Leon Brittan in the 1980s by the late Tory MP Geoffrey Dickens.

Lord Brittan said he handed the papers to officials - but their whereabouts are currently unknown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28189072

Doesn't sound good to me.

Why not under Oath? Why not?

 

[Triggaaar]

As far as I can see this story just once again tarnishes the old guard of politics and therefore could potentially mean more people are disenchanted with politics and therefore either don't vote

Will people also stop listening to pop music and watching TV entertainers? The abuse isn't limited to one profession and it won't be limited to one political party.

 

[catfish]

I understand that the 'prominent' local MP alluded to on here, and named in the on line article, has already successfully sued people over this.

Just like Jeffrey Archer did eh?

 

[Pavilionaire]

Based on the original question I would say the only gains are for UKIP.

As far as I can see this story just once again tarnishes the old guard of politics and therefore could potentially mean more people are disenchanted with politics and therefore either don't vote or vote for a fringe protest party like UKIP.

But surely the opposite should apply, i.e. if today's government and opposition are willing to get to grips with the issue and facilitate a proper enquiry that ends up with convictions of the guilty then that would signal a break with the past and therefore make voters re-engage politically?

 

[Triggaaar]

But surely the opposite should apply, i.e. if today's government and opposition are willing to get to grips with the issue and facilitate a proper enquiry that ends up with convictions of the guilty then that would signal a break with the past and therefore make voters re-engage politically?

That's what we want, and the current parties need to understand it.

 

[Goldstone1976]

But surely the opposite should apply, i.e. if today's government and opposition are willing to get to grips with the issue and facilitate a proper enquiry that ends up with convictions of the guilty then that would signal a break with the past and therefore make voters re-engage politically?

One would hope so. However, it's only 10 months til the next general election, which is far too short a time to have an in-depth investigation followed by a police inquiry into any new revelations followed by a trial(s) and any subsequent convictions. It will be interesting to see how the parties balance the need for urgent short-term action to bolster their election chances with the need for considered investigations to avoid a witch-hunt and to properly learn any lessons.

 

[Pinkie Brown]

Theresa May is to outline plans for a "wide-ranging" inquiry, led by an expert panel, into historic child sex abuse claims, the BBC understands.

The BBC's Nick Robinson said the inquiry would look at claims covering the government, the NHS and the BBC.

The inquiry would be held in public but evidence would not be given under oath.

The home secretary will also tell MPs about a separate review of whether her department failed to act on claims of a paedophile ring in the 1980s.

Mrs May's statement to MPs is expected at 15:30 BST.

The home secretary is also set to announce a review into public bodies and their duty of care towards children.

Chancellor George Osborne told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the investigation would go "as far as it needs to go".

"People can be absolutely clear, these are very, very serious matters, we take them very seriously, we want to get to the truth and nothing but the truth, and we will do it in an independent and authoritative way."

Labour has been calling for a full public inquiry into the various child sex abuse claims from the past. Shadow home Secretary Yvette Cooper told BBC Radio 5Live she would have to wait and see the full details of the inquiry being planned.

However, she welcomed reports that it would be wide-ranging and cover all the various allegations - as long as a police investigations into specific claims continued.

"Whether it's in the NHS about Savile, whether it's the BBC, whether it's in the Home Office, we need to make sure that all the lessons are learned so that we can have a strong enough child protection system for the future."
Lessons learned

BBC Political Editor Nick Robinson said the form of the inquiry could be similar in style to the Hillsborough inquiry - with experts taking evidence mostly in public.

It would not be a full judge-led public inquiry, such as the Leveson or the Hutton inquiries which had witnesses giving evidence under oath, he said.

Ministers have so far rejected calls for an over-arching public inquiry into the various abuse allegations from the era, pointing to ongoing police investigations.

Nick Clegg: 'Nothing more revolting than people in power working with each other, possibly covering up'

Over the weekend it was announced that a senior legal figure from outside Whitehall is to look again into a Home Office review last year of any information it received in the 1980s and 1990s about organised child sex abuse.

It is to look at what happened to a dossier of abuse claims reportedly passed to then Home Secretary Leon Brittan in the 1980s by the late Tory MP Geoffrey Dickens.

Lord Brittan said he handed the papers to officials - but their whereabouts are currently unknown.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28189072

Doesn't sound good to me.

Why not under Oath? Why not?

To try and suggest any "inquiry" needn't be under oath is nothing short of a scandal in itself. Witnesses MUST give evidence under oath ffs!!!

The 'establishment' are starting to get jittery and will use every delay and fudge possible to prevent the truth coming out.

Watching that weasel David Mellor sticking up for his old boss Leon Brittan yesterday was nauseating. Claiming Brittan is now the victim of a "witch hunt". Questions are being asked because its quite apparent Mr Bittan has questions to answer. When Mellor was caught with his pants down with an actress all those years ago, initially denying the allegations, no doubt that was a "witch hunt" too? He was quite happy to use the papers to wheel his wife and kids out for a photo opportunity at his front gate to show what a "united family" they were. Mr Mellors hypocrisy in defending his old boss is a prime example of the old boys network closing ranks and everything that is rotten and arrogant of those in positions of power, both past and present.

 

[dingodan]

To try and suggest any "inquiry" needn't be under oath is nothing short of a scandal in itself. Witnesses MUST give evidence under oath ffs!!!

I know right. I cannot see any argument in favor of a "no oath" inquiry? You might as well say that we are going to have an inquiry in which people are allowed to lie.

WTF.

#WHYNOOATH

 

[beorhthelm]

Why not under Oath? Why not?

To try and suggest any "inquiry" needn't be under oath is nothing short of a scandal in itself. Witnesses MUST give evidence under oath ffs!!!

i believe that to be under oath would require a full judicial public inquiry and that would take months to years. also i read a lot of people who maybe involve in previous investigations are not in legal position to say everything, so giving evidence under oath would be unworkable. this way they can be called and answer (or rather not answer) questions in a way that directs the inquiry to avenues to pursue. so you can read something sinister into this, or read it as expediency and practicalities.

 

[carlzeiss]

Stomach churning reading , from the Guardian 27.11.2000

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/nov/27/childprotection.uk

 

[dingodan]

i believe that to be under oath would require a full judicial public inquiry and that would take months to years. also i read a lot of people who maybe involve in previous investigations are not in legal position to say everything, so giving evidence under oath would be unworkable. this way they can be called and answer (or rather not answer) questions in a way that directs the inquiry to avenues to pursue. so you can read something sinister into this, or read it as expediency and practicalities.

People will be allowed to lie about child abuse, with impunity.

And once they have, we will all be expected to accept the matter as closed.

That is sinister to me.

 

[Pavilionaire]

One would hope so. However, it's only 10 months til the next general election, which is far too short a time to have an in-depth investigation followed by a police inquiry into any new revelations followed by a trial(s) and any subsequent convictions. It will be interesting to see how the parties balance the need for urgent short-term action to bolster their election chances with the need for considered investigations to avoid a witch-hunt and to properly learn any lessons.

European legislation and global economic forces mean that the UK government's ability to affect matters domestically is restricted far more than it used to be. This issue is, however, one in which they can show leadership and tenacity and have a direct impact on the outcome if they so choose.

Looking after the most vulnerable in society is a key part of government and this is a real opportunity for the coalition parties to show that they DO give a shit. It's ironic that 5 years ago Cameron's mantra was "The Big Society" and "We're All In This Together". Well this is his chance for him to prove it by showing it's no longer one law for them and another law for us.

 

[Goldstone1976]

European legislation and global economic forces mean that the UK government's ability to affect matters domestically is restricted far more than it used to be. This issue is, however, one in which they can show leadership and tenacity and have a direct impact on the outcome if they so choose.

Looking after the most vulnerable in society is a key part of government and this is a real opportunity for the coalition parties to show that they DO give a shit. It's ironic that 5 years ago Cameron's mantra was "The Big Society" and "We're All In This Together". Well this is his chance for him to prove it by showing it's no longer one law for them and another law for us.

Oh, I agree. I'm just saying that in order to deliver real, measurable-by-the-public outcomes in time to influence the voting patterns by the next election, there is just not enough time to do so without cutting a lot of corners.

 

[Pavilionaire]

If the evidence has gone missing it will need to be pieced back together and that will take time, so the Enquiry will run well into the next Parliament. However, there are certain individuals out there who must be shitting themselves now, and the fact that Carole Kasir and Jill Dando both died in mysterious circumstances and have been linked with this story only adds spice.