[Finance] The cryptocurrency (Bitcoin etc) thread

[RandyWanger]

Run by?

The WEF, who else?

 

[chickens]

A central bank digital currency can come in two distinct phases wholesale and retail. Wholesale being settlement of bank to bank transactions, which may include corporate treasuries and retail being an alternative to the banking arrangements most of us use today.

The immediate benefits include a reduction in the cost of international transactions and faster settlement times. This benefits governments in that economic forecasts can be based on more accurate and timely information, whereas there is a current lag of a couple of months, which can mess up forecasting.

Possibly the only government not in favour of this aproach is the US. They stand to lose the most as the dollar is the global reserve currency. Retail CBDC is a lot more controversial and many in crypto hate the idea. I think it is inevitable, but will not be pitched as either a replacement for tradtional banking nor a replacement for crypto, but another niche product.

If anyone is interested the following links provide some interesting insights into the direction of travel.

UK Regulated Liability Network
https://www.ukfinance.org.uk/regulated-liability-network

Coadjute Blockchain/ Real World Assets /web3 applied to the property market

"Home - Coadjute

We enable real-time information sharing over a secure network. No new CRMs or systems, just additional functionality.

coadjute.com

Rowan Energy Incentivising green energy rebates (arguably would have wider appeal if using a retail CBDC)
https://www.rowanenergy.com/

So, you’re talking about the creation of new digital tokens, one per equivalent existing currency (e.g. USDD - United States Digital Dollar) - ok

Whereas @RandyWanger’s vision appears (ere, I’ve been whooshed) to be more of an international central bank run by corporate interests in the shape of the World Economic Forum. However, this (by its nature) couldn’t use existing decentralised tokens that the WEF had no control over, it couldn’t fulfil the functions of a central bank in such a scenario, it too would have to create its own token.

I don’t know about anyone else, but a currency entirely owned and controlled by corporate interests is a fairly neat definition of a dystopia to my mind. There’s no accountability, there’s no voting them out if there’s wrongdoing or abuse. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s not something I’d be actively working towards (I’d be rowing hard in the other direction TBH)

 

[beorhthelm]

...

I’m not aware of any crypto project designed to address global market stability, ...

there is one called Bitcoin that seeks to address this problem. one can argue about it's delivery, but that is the objective.

 

[chickens]

there is one called Bitcoin that seeks to address this problem. one can argue about it's delivery, but that is the objective.

In that it fulfils the same purpose as gold? A “safe haven”? Would you say that status is proven?

 

[CheeseRolls]

So, you’re talking about the creation of new digital tokens, one per equivalent existing currency (e.g. USDD - United States Digital Dollar) - ok

Whereas @RandyWanger’s vision appears to be more of an international central bank run by corporate interests in the shape of the World Economic Forum. However, this (by its nature) couldn’t use existing decentralised tokens that the WEF had no control over, it couldn’t fulfil the functions of a central bank in such a scenario, it too would have to create its own token.

I don’t know about anyone else, but a currency entirely owned and controlled by corporate interests is a fairly neat definition of a dystopia to my mind. There’s no accountability, there’s no voting them out if there’s wrongdoing or abuse. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s not something I’d be actively working towards (I’d be rowing hard in the other direction TBH)

Settlement is but one part of a transaction and often the riskiest part. A smart contract which contains the exchange of assets or services, agreed terms and payment is the end goal. Crypto then becomes a means for paying for a transit network, or for paying for an any to any API based connection, which enables the transfer of tokenised assets and settlement. It doesn't necessarily follow that this requires every central bank to issue its own pegged digital currency, but there will be instances where this is the case. The likes of South America, China and Russia are all interested in creating an alternative to the US dollar as a reserve currency, which is partly why the US is not taking any lead in this area.

There is a strong movement within crytpo towards creating Decentralized Autonomous Organisation (DAO)
https://www.investopedia.com/tech/what-dao/

All stakeholders vote on changes and the technology is open source, which means anyone can take their ball away and play another game, if they don't agree with the direction of travel.

This leaves the mega exchanges and the big issuers of stablecoins sitting in an increasingly squeezed middle.

 

[raymondo]

There's a stock market crash on the horizon, 100% - and no doubt many crypto's will follow it as they do have some correlation.

There's a new monetary system coming and this will rely on utility crypto's.. not 'stores of value' (BTC) and meme coins.

XRP, XLM, XDC, Algorand, IOTA, Hedera to name a few. Then there's the overledgers and 'connectivity' like Quant, VeChain, Chainlink etc.

The above will survive and thrive.

When you say there's a stock market crash on the horizon.... I'd agree... there always is! Whether it's triggered by war, covid, mortgage overlending, the original internet hype, the current AI hype possibly...
The market has always recovered, sometimes slowly sometimes quickly.

What do you think will cause the next one? Simple over valuation of markets? And about when (I know... we don't know!).
I am mainly invested in stocks and dabble in crypto because my step son tells me too,.
Genuine question, thanks .

 

[beorhthelm]

In that it fulfils the same purpose as gold? A “safe haven”? Would you say that status is proven?

a long way from proven as safe haven, though gold comparison is a later addon. it's orginal design is to provide a stable currency free of interference from government or other control.

 

[chickens]

Settlement is but one part of a transaction and often the riskiest part. A smart contract which contains the exchange of assets or services, agreed terms and payment is the end goal. Crypto then becomes a means for paying for a transit network, or for paying for an any to any API based connection, which enables the transfer of tokenised assets and settlement. It doesn't necessarily follow that this requires every central bank to issue its own pegged digital currency, but there will be instances where this is the case. The likes of South America, China and Russia are all interested in creating an alternative to the US dollar as a reserve currency, which is partly why the US is not taking any lead in this area.

There is a strong movement within crytpo towards creating Decentralized Autonomous Organisation (DAO)
https://www.investopedia.com/tech/what-dao/

All stakeholders vote on changes and the technology is open source, which means anyone can take their ball away and play another game, if they don't agree with the direction of travel.

This leaves the mega exchanges and the big issuers of stablecoins sitting in an increasingly squeezed middle.

DAO’s sound almost utopian, until you look at things like Brexit, and then you realise that majorities can be gulled into believing some damn silly things. (Like crypto currencies controlled by the WEF)

 

[RandyWanger]

(Like crypto currencies controlled by the WEF)

And jokes on internet forums

 

[chickens]

And jokes on internet forums

I did realise I’d been whooshed, but only on a 15 minute delay! I was busy responding to @CheeseRolls when a neuron suddenly fired. Bravo sir.

 

[Marshy]

I’ve heard this song before, and you’re absolutely right that there’s a stock market crash coming. They come along regularly, right after stock market recoveries and stock market boom times.

However, what you’re betting on here, is that rather than crash, recover, boom, the market crashes and nobody bothers to pick up the pieces, they all start using crypto.

Now, I’m all for “believing in the product” but does it not just seem a little far-fetched to you that huge power blocs will all just go “actually forget about the USD/GBP/EUR - let’s just use this random crypto token instead. What could possibly go wrong?”

you are absolutely right Crypto will not replace the USD GBP etc, but there will be digital versions of those currencies, and Crypto will be involved in moving that money around the world in Seconds and for fractions of a penny compared to current scenarios.
Banks will no longer have to hold vast sums of money in varying currencies to transact with each other.

Any winning crypto will work along Central Banks, banks and Financial institutions as a tool, otherwise that crypto will not survive.

Look for those and you will win.

 

[Knocky's Nose]

you are absolutely right Crypto will not replace the USD GBP etc, but there will be digital versions of those currencies, and Crypto will be involved in moving that money around the world in Seconds and for fractions of a penny compared to current scenarios.
Banks will no longer have to hold vast sums of money in varying currencies to transact with each other.

Any winning crypto will work along Central Banks, banks and Financial institutions as a tool, otherwise that crypto will not survive.

Look for those and you will win.

Read the above. Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[Weststander]

When you say there's a stock market crash on the horizon.... I'd agree... there always is! Whether it's triggered by war, covid, mortgage overlending, the original internet hype, the current AI hype possibly...
The market has always recovered, sometimes slowly sometimes quickly.

What do you think will cause the next one? Simple over valuation of markets? And about when (I know... we don't know!).
I am mainly invested in stocks and dabble in crypto because my step son tells me too,.
Genuine question, thanks .

It might be this month, it might be in 5 years time. Then the inevitable recovery, sometimes swiftly.

Imho:
- don’t over invest in funds/companies with a low yield or very low EPS.
- don’t sell once the crash is well underway unless a fund is clearly in terminal decline. Take the long view.

 

[RandyWanger]

But we're all about to go large on GME right? Kitty posted their position

 

[CheeseRolls]

Just thought I would leave this one here. It isn't all about moving money and bigger isn't always better.

 

[beorhthelm]

Just thought I would leave this one here. It isn't all about moving money and bigger isn't always better.

it's quite amusing how many projects claim they are the only one that run on edge devices. especially when they put "DEPIN" in their message, name given to a category of chains which run on edge devices.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

When you say there's a stock market crash on the horizon.... I'd agree... there always is! Whether it's triggered by war, covid, mortgage overlending, the original internet hype, the current AI hype possibly...
The market has always recovered, sometimes slowly sometimes quickly.

What do you think will cause the next one? Simple over valuation of markets? And about when (I know... we don't know!).
I am mainly invested in stocks and dabble in crypto because my step son tells me too,.
Genuine question, thanks .

Genuine answer: the cause of the next stock market crash will be the same as the last stock market crash ie a black swan event. Practically none of these hotshot finance professionals saw the crash of 2008 coming. In the same way, not one of these hotshot football finance experts publicly predicted that the EPL would implode as spectacularly as it is currently doing, as of last week. Nobody saw the global pandemic coming. The cause of the next stock market crash will doubtless be something completely unforeseen like that huge volcano in Iceland wiping out international air travel more comprehensively than that last volcanic eruption did. On the crypto front, the failure to ring fence that dodgy shit away from the mainstream financial markets might just light the blue touchpaper

 

[raymondo]

Genuine answer: the cause of the next stock market crash will be the same as the last stock market crash ie a black swan event. Practically none of these hotshot finance professionals saw the crash of 2008 coming. In the same way, not one of these hotshot football finance experts publicly predicted that the EPL would implode as spectacularly as it is currently doing, as of last week. Nobody saw the global pandemic coming. The cause of the next stock market crash will doubtless be something completely unforeseen like that huge volcano in Iceland wiping out international air travel more comprehensively than that last volcanic eruption did. On the crypto front, the failure to ring fence that dodgy shit away from the mainstream financial markets might just light the blue touchpaper

Yep, I agree with you

 

[CheeseRolls]

it's quite amusing how many projects claim they are the only one that run on edge devices. especially when they put "DEPIN" in their message, name given to a category of chains which run on edge devices.

There is talk and then there is action.

 

[RandyWanger]

Genuine answer: the cause of the next stock market crash will be the same as the last stock market crash ie a black swan event. Practically none of these hotshot finance professionals saw the crash of 2008 coming. In the same way, not one of these hotshot football finance experts publicly predicted that the EPL would implode as spectacularly as it is currently doing, as of last week. Nobody saw the global pandemic coming. The cause of the next stock market crash will doubtless be something completely unforeseen like that huge volcano in Iceland wiping out international air travel more comprehensively than that last volcanic eruption did. On the crypto front, the failure to ring fence that dodgy shit away from the mainstream financial markets might just light the blue touchpaper

I bet Nancy Pelosi will see it coming.