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[Finance] The cryptocurrency (Bitcoin etc) thread



























chickens

chickens

Have you considered masterly inactivity?
NSC Patron
Oct 12, 2022
2,784
pb21 said:
Why?
Click to expand...
Sustainability. We are not yet powering everything with clean energy, which means we are potentially worsening climate change, or in the case of nuclear, wondering where to stash the highly radioactive waste material for the next 10,000 years.

It may be that over years or decades we can build a clean energy grid capable of indulging our most power-hungry whims, but we’re not there yet, so managing demand has to be a tool in the arsenal.
 


pb21

pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,715
chickens said:
Sustainability. We are not yet powering everything with clean energy, which means we are potentially worsening climate change, or in the case of nuclear, wondering where to stash the highly radioactive waste material for the next 10,000 years.

It may be that over years or decades we can build a clean energy grid capable of indulging our most power-hungry whims, but we’re not there yet, so managing demand has to be a tool in the arsenal.
Click to expand...
Fair point, although that's effectively my second option! I suppose in the immediate short-term we may need to use less energy, but only to the extent that it is sustainable. More generally the only aim should be sustainability.
 




CheeseRolls

CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 27, 2009
6,249
Shoreham Beach
Entered my own personal hell, of trying to produce a crypto trading report for HMRC. I have spent days on this and it is frying my brain. I am trying to follow the guidelines, but it is almost impossible. Anyone else tackling this and struggling? I seem to be paying a price for being a dabbler and wanting to know how things work for myself. The deadline for reporting this year and previous years is not until January, so there is plenty of time, but I want to know what I am likely to have to pay now. It would have been so much easier if this was treated as a black hole with money in and money out, but the gap here is obvious.

I have used both cryptotaxcalculator.io which I have subscribed to and app.koinly.io. Both are really good tools (Koinly looks slightly easier to use), until you do something that is not supported.

For example they provide tools which can extract your records from exchanges via api or log file. Kucoin does not provide logs for any transactions over 12 months old and as they are not now approved for sterling transactions and UK trading, they have no incentive to fix this.

The tools are also very good at scanning transactions from common chains (erc20, bnb etc), but get confused by smart contracts, so you have to pick through these and manually reclassify. This includes some swaps, staking and providing liquidity.

Sometimes a token will have a one for one swap to a new contract address. I have a couple of these and there isn't a standard way this is handled, either via smart contracts or by the tools.

Some tokens appear to be supported (Hbar, fet.ai, orai), but only when they use erc20 etc contracts. If you move them to their native chain, support is patchy. You then have to work out how to extract the logs, reformat and import them. The main reason for moving to a native chain is either to stake or provide liquidity, which just creates a ton of transactions which need to be classified.

Going forward people have a choice whether to avoid certain activities as they will be difficult to report on, when the guidelines are retrospective this is not helpful. The law of diminishing marginal returns also means that whilst the vendors are keen to let you know they will be adding support for different chains, there is no guarantee they will ever finish working on the one you really need.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,062
completing records for tax purposes is a very special experience. i've been trying to make staking show properly, lots of manual additions, tweeks, placeholders to cover the odd stuff. in the end get to something that looks right and defendable. it doesnt help that some contracts will swap tokens when staking, so technically a taxable event (and didnt realise until after).

@CheeseRolls you can go back further than 12 months by exporting 3 month chunks at a time. with Kucoin its better to export as csv and load into Koinly as the API creates lots of crap and errors in my experience. also gives you a local copy for records.
 


Gazwag

Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
30,809
Bexhill-on-Sea
CheeseRolls said:
Entered my own personal hell, of trying to produce a crypto trading report for HMRC. I have spent days on this and it is frying my brain. I am trying to follow the guidelines, but it is almost impossible. Anyone else tackling this and struggling? I seem to be paying a price for being a dabbler and wanting to know how things work for myself. The deadline for reporting this year and previous years is not until January, so there is plenty of time, but I want to know what I am likely to have to pay now. It would have been so much easier if this was treated as a black hole with money in and money out, but the gap here is obvious.

I have used both cryptotaxcalculator.io which I have subscribed to and app.koinly.io. Both are really good tools (Koinly looks slightly easier to use), until you do something that is not supported.

For example they provide tools which can extract your records from exchanges via api or log file. Kucoin does not provide logs for any transactions over 12 months old and as they are not now approved for sterling transactions and UK trading, they have no incentive to fix this.

The tools are also very good at scanning transactions from common chains (erc20, bnb etc), but get confused by smart contracts, so you have to pick through these and manually reclassify. This includes some swaps, staking and providing liquidity.

Sometimes a token will have a one for one swap to a new contract address. I have a couple of these and there isn't a standard way this is handled, either via smart contracts or by the tools.

Some tokens appear to be supported (Hbar, fet.ai, orai), but only when they use erc20 etc contracts. If you move them to their native chain, support is patchy. You then have to work out how to extract the logs, reformat and import them. The main reason for moving to a native chain is either to stake or provide liquidity, which just creates a ton of transactions which need to be classified.

Going forward people have a choice whether to avoid certain activities as they will be difficult to report on, when the guidelines are retrospective this is not helpful. The law of diminishing marginal returns also means that whilst the vendors are keen to let you know they will be adding support for different chains, there is no guarantee they will ever finish working on the one you really need.
Click to expand...
I think HMRC will find it almost impossible to work out if you have done it right or wrong so as long as you actually declare something and you are happy it looks right that's probably more than most will be doing, and its those who will be the ones that will be in trouble when they get found out in the future rather than those who try and do it right now.
 




Nigella's Cream Pie

Nigella's Cream Pie

Fingerlickin good
Apr 2, 2009
1,139
Up your alley
I have just burnt loads of worthless (almost) Solana NFTs to generate a loss for offsetting against gains. Koinly report then told me that net gains just under CGT allowance for ending tax year of £6k; new year allowance will be just £3k. That was after I entered purchase/airdrop and sale transactions for the NFTs manually. However, I then did sync of wallets and loads of errors, koinly not connecting the Solana NFT acquisitions and sales. Koinly help no good. I have a spreadsheet but don't know how to calculate cost basis when selling. Huge hassle, makes me want to quit direct trading and just trade Microstrategy, which so far has gained hugely for me (up £110k since buying 6 weeks ago), in an ISA so no worries about CGT.
 


sydney

sydney

tinky ****in winky
Jul 11, 2003
17,974
town full of eejits
CheeseRolls said:
Entered my own personal hell, of trying to produce a crypto trading report for HMRC. I have spent days on this and it is frying my brain. I am trying to follow the guidelines, but it is almost impossible. Anyone else tackling this and struggling? I seem to be paying a price for being a dabbler and wanting to know how things work for myself. The deadline for reporting this year and previous years is not until January, so there is plenty of time, but I want to know what I am likely to have to pay now. It would have been so much easier if this was treated as a black hole with money in and money out, but the gap here is obvious.

I have used both cryptotaxcalculator.io which I have subscribed to and app.koinly.io. Both are really good tools (Koinly looks slightly easier to use), until you do something that is not supported.

For example they provide tools which can extract your records from exchanges via api or log file. Kucoin does not provide logs for any transactions over 12 months old and as they are not now approved for sterling transactions and UK trading, they have no incentive to fix this.

The tools are also very good at scanning transactions from common chains (erc20, bnb etc), but get confused by smart contracts, so you have to pick through these and manually reclassify. This includes some swaps, staking and providing liquidity.

Sometimes a token will have a one for one swap to a new contract address. I have a couple of these and there isn't a standard way this is handled, either via smart contracts or by the tools.

Some tokens appear to be supported (Hbar, fet.ai, orai), but only when they use erc20 etc contracts. If you move them to their native chain, support is patchy. You then have to work out how to extract the logs, reformat and import them. The main reason for moving to a native chain is either to stake or provide liquidity, which just creates a ton of transactions which need to be classified.

Going forward people have a choice whether to avoid certain activities as they will be difficult to report on, when the guidelines are retrospective this is not helpful. The law of diminishing marginal returns also means that whilst the vendors are keen to let you know they will be adding support for different chains, there is no guarantee they will ever finish working on the one you really need.
Click to expand...
surely you only pay tax on your realised profits..?
 








B

Berty23

Well-known member
Jun 26, 2012
3,710
RandyWanger said:
For anyone who was unable to place deposits in SwissBorg, they've sorted out the regulatory issues and after a quick questionnaire and quiz, you can trade again.
Click to expand...
The questionnaire was funny wasn’t it. Basically said “tick this box if you know this could all go to rat shit and you lose everything”
 


RandyWanger

RandyWanger

Je suis rôti de boeuf
Mar 14, 2013
6,809
Done a Frexit, now in London
Did seem pointless, they could just have a health style warning on the app/website when launched saying all your money is at risk and be done with it.
I did try to move some BTC from coinable to Swiss earlier and the network fees were almost 40% of the value :eek: going to hold off and check back later on that one.
 


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