[Albion] The Ambition to being Top 10 club.

[blue-shifted]

Premier League clubs have 92%+ full stadiums because on the whole, they have the right sized ground for their fanbase. Some expansion would be welcome at some (Bournemouth being a case in point, probably Liverpool), but by and large, they're about right which is why they're mostly (but not always) full.

You seem to be having some delusions of grandeur. Even if we spent 10 years in the PL and bobbed about challenging for top 10, we do NOT have the worldwide pulling power of the established elite. The gloryhunting banjo's who latch on in China and Thailand are only interested in the Big Six. We are, historically, not a big club. We have grown massively out of all recognition from where we were 10 years ago, but we are not and will never be a south coast Man Utd or Liverpool, pulling in 50k+ a week regardless of who we are playing. And I gave Leicester as an example to emphasise the point, its not just the bottom-feeders who we'd have a 1/3 empty stadium against. Its the other midtable furniture as well who we wouldn't sell out for. And this is of course assuming we manage to stay on this gravy train, which is a LONG way from being assured. Drop down, and we're a Sunderland, in a cavernous half-empty stadium.

Not EVERYONE is walking around in Sussex with a permanent stonk-on for the Premier League. Notions of us aiming to get a 50k stadium are ridiculous and frankly a bit embarrassing.

I'm with Mustafa

It's not that I think we necessarily should build say 50K stadium, I think that

A) With the ludicrous money sloshing round in the Premier League, things which should be financially impossible, like retrofitting a recently built 30k stadium to be a 50k stadium, all of a sudden aren't financially impossible

B) It's possible that we could fill it.

Here's why I believe we could fill it

I was "lucky enough" to be unemployed whilst the Falmer Public Enquiry was underway, so I got to see most of it. The barrister arguing against the development, (I can still picture the public school poshboy now) was consistently grilling Knight and Perry on the finances. Now at the time, we were probably division 4 or 3, had been at Withdean for a couple of years, and his consistent line of attack was that the club shouldn't be allowed permission for the stadium as the business model relied on 12,000 and there's no way we would ever get that as we were only getting 5000 in a 6000 stadium at the time of application. I'll always remember the passion and belief with which Dick Knight spoke about our club. How if we gave them something worth watching, somewhere worth coming to, they would come. It made me dare to believe he was right. I didn't know he was until August 2012.

"Why don't you convert Withdean to a permanent stadium" this Barrister asked Dick Knight? "Because then we'd be sentenced to eternal mediocrity" Knight replied. I'll always remember that.

Now what we have now certainly isn't mediocrity, but I think the principles at play are the same. I think there are another 20,000 in Brighton, or in Sussex there to be brought on board if we build them somewhere to sit then, then crucially, we went out and got them. (8000 already waiting of course, so "only" 12 to go)

Like I say, i'm not dead set on it, it's just if we have 100's of millions of income over the next however many years, I'd prefer us to use a chunk to grow our support base and grow our club rather than spend it all on wages. What a risk it would be, because, you're right, we might go down, we might end up unable to fill it, we might end up with a white elephant. I wonder what Dick thinks about it?

 

[spence]

Premier League clubs have 92%+ full stadiums because on the whole, they have the right sized ground for their fanbase. Some expansion would be welcome at some (Bournemouth being a case in point, probably Liverpool), but by and large, they're about right which is why they're mostly (but not always) full.

You seem to be having some delusions of grandeur. Even if we spent 10 years in the PL and bobbed about challenging for top 10, we do NOT have the worldwide pulling power of the established elite. The gloryhunting banjo's who latch on in China and Thailand are only interested in the Big Six. We are, historically, not a big club. We have grown massively out of all recognition from where we were 10 years ago, but we are not and will never be a south coast Man Utd or Liverpool, pulling in 50k+ a week regardless of who we are playing. And I gave Leicester as an example to emphasise the point, its not just the bottom-feeders who we'd have a 1/3 empty stadium against. Its the other midtable furniture as well who we wouldn't sell out for. And this is of course assuming we manage to stay on this gravy train, which is a LONG way from being assured. Drop down, and we're a Sunderland, in a cavernous half-empty stadium.

Not EVERYONE is walking around in Sussex with a permanent stonk-on for the Premier League. Notions of us aiming to get a 50k stadium are ridiculous and frankly a bit embarrassing.

The conurbation of Sussex is about 1.4 million people. We certainly have potential to increase our fan base by a lot more though. We are quite blessed with our location.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm with Mustafa

It's not that I think we necessarily should build say 50K stadium, I think that

A) With the ludicrous money sloshing round in the Premier League, things which should be financially impossible, like retrofitting a recently built 30k stadium to be a 50k stadium, all of a sudden aren't financially impossible

B) It's possible that we could fill it.

Here's why I believe we could fill it

I was "lucky enough" to be unemployed whilst the Falmer Public Enquiry was underway, so I got to see most of it. The barrister arguing against the development, (I can still picture the public school poshboy now) was consistently grilling Knight and Perry on the finances. Now at the time, we were probably division 4 or 3, had been at Withdean for a couple of years, and his consistent line of attack was that the club shouldn't be allowed permission for the stadium as the business model relied on 12,000 and there's no way we would ever get that as we were only getting 5000 in a 6000 stadium at the time of application. I'll always remember the passion and belief with which Dick Knight spoke about our club. How if we gave them something worth watching, somewhere worth coming to, they would come. It made me dare to believe he was right. I didn't know he was until August 2012.

"Why don't you convert Withdean to a permanent stadium" this Barrister asked Dick Knight? "Because then we'd be sentenced to eternal mediocrity" Knight replied. I'll always remember that.

Now what we have now certainly isn't mediocrity, but I think the principles at play are the same. I think there are another 20,000 in Brighton, or in Sussex there to be brought on board if we build them somewhere to sit then, then crucially, we went out and got them. (8000 already waiting of course, so "only" 12 to go)

Like I say, i'm not dead set on it, it's just if we have 100's of millions of income over the next however many years, I'd prefer us to use a chunk to grow our support base and grow our club rather than spend it all on wages. What a risk it would be, because, you're right, we might go down, we might end up unable to fill it, we might end up with a white elephant. I wonder what Dick thinks about it?

We got planning permission in July 2002 from Brighton council. The government called it in for a public enquiry which started in 2003 when we'd just got relegated from the Championship. It went on into 2004 when we got promoted again via the playoffs.
It took 9 years and two public enquiries to get what we have now.
How long do you think it would take to get another stadium built, with planning permission for 50K and where?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Back in the day there were threads on the proposed design of the stadium and there were those who thought we'd regret not allowing for expansion. As I recall the design was some knock-off of the Sydney Olympic stadium - that's how long ago it was. It all seemed such pie in the sky the design proceeded without question.

 

[Machiavelli]

Our wagebill was the 9th biggest in the division the year we went up, and our record transfer fee paid was the £4m or so we shelled out for Shane Duffy. It wasn't exactly done on the cheap, but there were plenty of Championship clubs splashing a LOT more cash around than ourselves to get out of that league.

What. Like Sheffield Wednesday

 

[blue-shifted]

We got planning permission in July 2002 from Brighton council. The government called it in for a public enquiry which started in 2003 when we'd just got relegated from the Championship. It went on into 2004 when we got promoted again via the playoffs.
It took 9 years and two public enquiries to get what we have now.
How long do you think it would take to get another stadium built, with planning permission for 50K and where?

Don't know mate, you've got me there. All I know is that we didn't have money to grease the wheels last time and we got it built

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Don't know mate, you've got me there. All I know is that we didn't have money to grease the wheels last time and we got it built

Tony Bloom has been involved with the club for a long time before he took over in 2009.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

As an aside in one of those football ground books Old Trafford foundations were completely over-specced. The result was the additional height for the stands were made easier. Also the Blackpool boardroom was wood panelled taken from an old wooden warship. I think that was right.

 

[blue-shifted]

Whilst in the PL, we could quite possibly get gates of 35,000, to much higher for the visits of Liverpool and ManU. We have 8,000 on the s/t waiting list who all in 2019 coughed up (for the first time) the new deposit to show intent.

But the reality is that the stadium can only be tweaked to take say 32,000.

That will be it for many decades to come. The roofs are anchored deep under the stadium in 100’s of tonnes of concrete. It would cost TB another £100 plus to tear all that apart and partially start again. Whilst BHCC seem dead against greater numbers.

Logistically it would be a preposterously expensive and complicated venture, you're right.

In terms of the council? They're under huge pressure for money and we're bringing it in. if we're proposing to increase that amount by 40%, (and they know a good chunk of their voters are Albion fans), they won't get in the way. In fact i'll guess they'll bend over backwards.

 

[Diablo]

The Ambition to being Top 10 club.

Not what the Brighton fans were singing at watford. Sounded like we`re gonna win the League ! although I suppose top is in the top ten.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Logistically it would be a preposterously expensive and complicated venture, you're right.

In terms of the council? They're under huge pressure for money and we're bringing it in. if we're proposing to increase that amount by 40%, (and they know a good chunk of their voters are Albion fans), they won't get in the way. In fact i'll guess they'll bend over backwards.

I think the argument of the benefits of a football club to the city has been won. Whether anyone wants it on their doorstep is another matter.

The Cement Works gets my vote.

 

[Stat Brother]

Tony might take a leaf out of Parish's book.

He'll tell us he's gonna build a new stand.
"That'll keep the suckers quiet"
A year later he'll tell us the money has been ringfenced.
"That'll keep the suckers quiet".
A year later he'll tell us the work will start in 6 months time.
"That'll keep the suckers quiet".
A year later he'll have some scaffolding erected.
"That'll keep the suckers quiet".
A year later he'll get a cement mixer and leave it outside the main entrance.
"That'll keep the suckers quiet".


I guess that would be dependent on Mr Bloom being a spiv and us being idiots, so maybe not.

 

[dazzer6666]

Every seat at the Amex has a great view. Can’t stand bigger stadiums personally, sitting miles away from the pitch. Much prefer a stadium like the Amex. Don’t think it’s needed from a revenue point of view either- Bournemouth have a tiny stadium and are fine.
We would end up with a load of football tourists and dilute our core support

100x this. Leave well alone. Much better to have what we have than an Arsenal-style vacuous library of a stadium full of day trippers taking pics of themselves.

 

[zefarelly]

I think the argument of the benefits of a football club to the city has been won. Whether anyone wants it on their doorstep is another matter.

The Cement Works gets my vote.

I suggested that 20 odd years ago too . . . . Best bit being I could walk/cycle to games. I still plan to buy the Goldstone back if I win euro millions.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

We already are a top 10 club, infact we are 4th

We were 3rd on Saturday then we plummeted on Sunday so the talk of expansion and a 50k stadium is extremely premature, we haven't even got a friggin monorail.

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

100x this. Leave well alone. Much better to have what we have than an Arsenal-style vacuous library of a stadium full of day trippers taking pics of themselves.

Quite right, god forbid we ever have those type of fans at The Amex, they will be holding up signs asking for the opposition's players shirts next.

 

[Bob!]

I suggested that 20 odd years ago too . . . . Best bit being I could walk/cycle to games. I still plan to buy the Goldstone back if I win euro millions.

You might need to win it a few weeks running if you want to build a Stadium there as well !

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Every seat at the Amex has a great view. Can’t stand bigger stadiums personally, sitting miles away from the pitch. Much prefer a stadium like the Amex. Don’t think it’s needed from a revenue point of view either- Bournemouth have a tiny stadium and are fine.
We would end up with a load of football tourists and dilute our core support

This.

And what's wrong with a bit of exclusivity for now?

Squeeze it up to 32K then let it settle till we are regular top ten and a proper 'name' club. Survive well this season then let's think more about marketing. It isn't a business, but the business is a business. FFS.

 

[warmleyseagull]

I know the subject of our ground expansion is sometimes a subject that may sound like a broken record.

Nuff said.

 

[portlock seagull]

We do NOT need a stadium bigger than our current one. Two reasons a) we will inevitably return to the Championship where it’s just not needed, few clubs traditionally much bigger than us fill theirs and our fickle fan base is no different b) the supporting infrastructure isn’t there, nor can I ever see it being built - Christ, have people forgotten how hard it was to get planning permission?!! You need to fund 2 public enquiries to drop a kerb in these parts, never mind the sort of change necessary to support e.g. another 10K spectators.