[Drinking] The alternatives Real-world examples of how people do economics differently - The Bevy

[hans kraay fan club]

What a needless, incorrect and spiteful comment.

Standard

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes, I think it's true that local authorities have been too swift to turn pubs into houses but these are generally pubs that aren't making any money: successful pubs don't close. The Bevendean was making reasonable money but, as you pointed out, it was closed for other reasons.

I think there's a bit a change in mindset now. There was an application to change the Hikers into student accommodation but that got nowhere (Sainsbury's got short shrift too). I'm looking forward to the re-opening.

The Alex and Allen were on what is now the Vogue gyratory. The Alex is now a head shop. I only went in it a couple of times and it looked dead, apart from a few ageing alkies. The Allen became The Counting House and the White Crow before finally closing, it's now student accommodation.

Successful pubs can close if the value of the real estate exceeds the value as a business ie house price inflation can be linked directly to the high rate of pub closures.
It can be the case that pub profit expectations rise not for any other reason than the value of the property as a house.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I like all these alternative economics. I do wonder where the economic world will be in 10, 20, 30 plus year’s time. There are a number of crowd funding models out there now which have been hugely successful from small scale local to billion dollar international companies. And then there’s crypto-currencies. And new technology and platforms provide a way for new thinking to circumvent the stranglehold old men and old thinking has had on the world economy.

Agreed, it's a great initiative. Difficult to see this model spreading throughout the economy though when high street businesses face unfair tax competition from chain rivals.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Agreed, it's a great initiative. Difficult to see this model spreading throughout the economy though when high street businesses face unfair tax competition from chain rivals.

Agree in part but I’m inspired by the fact there’s over a 100 similar pubs and also micro pubs are taking hold. I also feel old thinking about business is now being properly challenged; something will give and hopefully allow alternative business models to flourish.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Successful pubs can close if the value of the real estate exceeds the value as a business ie house price inflation can be linked directly to the high rate of pub closures.
It can be the case that pub profit expectations rise not for any other reason than the value of the property as a house.

Fair point. At one point it was difficult to know if Punch Taverns were a pub co or a property business.

 

[W.C.]

What a needless, incorrect and spiteful comment. Did you actually read the article? What's it got to do with "left" or "right" anyway?



Exactly.

A Wellquickwoody classic. Now coming all the way from the other side of the planet!

 

[nickbrighton]

I'm not sure that it's the authorities, the pubs couldn't make money. The good news is that the Hiker's is set to re-open and the Royal Hussar (TirNaNog/Lectern) has now been classed as an asset of community value - meaning that steps are being taken to get it re-opened.

Sometimes pubs do close because they're dreadful - the Alexandra and the Allen Arms further along the road were pretty poor.

I am afraid you are wrong about the Lectern, it has been classed as a community asset, but all that means is when the Uni develop it-they will create a community space there-the plans are for some kind of rooms available for hire-no pub at all. Its part of the Uni "The Big Build" along with the barracks site and uni car park. The lectern is being demolished along with cost cutter the garage,the 3 houses etc and there are I think 4 or 5 tower blocks going there. total of 1400 student rooms with ZERO car parking for them across the whole site both sides of Lewes Rd. Us locals are NOT impressed

 

[Gwylan]

I am afraid you are wrong about the Lectern, it has been classed as a community asset, but all that means is when the Uni develop it-they will create a community space there-the plans are for some kind of rooms available for hire-no pub at all. Its part of the Uni "The Big Build" along with the barracks site and uni car park. The lectern is being demolished along with cost cutter the garage,the 3 houses etc and there are I think 4 or 5 tower blocks going there. total of 1400 student rooms with ZERO car parking for them across the whole site both sides of Lewes Rd. Us locals are NOT impressed

I stand corrected. I got from information from a leaflet that said that as the place had been recognised as a community asset, there was now a campaign to get the place re-opened as a pub. I remember that was pretty much how The Bevy started; it was ear-marked for student housing and the campaign to get it re-opened as a pub began.

I hadn't realised that the plan for a student build at The Lectern were so advanced.

As a side issue, isn't it a good thing that there's no place for car parking? People are always moaning about congestion on Lewes Rd and anything that keeps it down should be welcomed surely?

 

[nickbrighton]

I stand corrected. I got from information from a leaflet that said that as the place had been recognised as a community asset, there was now a campaign to get the place re-opened as a pub. I remember that was pretty much how The Bevy started; it was ear-marked for student housing and the campaign to get it re-opened as a pub began.

I hadn't realised that the plan for a student build at The Lectern were so advanced.

As a side issue, isn't it a good thing that there's no place for car parking? People are always moaning about congestion on Lewes Rd and anything that keeps it down should be welcomed surely?

here is the link to the uni big build -its eye opening to say the least.https://www.brighton.ac.uk/bigbuild/index.aspx?dm_i=1SNX,5S18M,G82WD0,MJNDG,1

as for car parking I have to disagree. 1400 more students concentrated in such a small space with no parking- how many will bring cars? and where will they park them?. On the streets in the surrounding areas. Its crazy, the uni say they will tell students not to bring cars as a condition of having the accommodation, however when we asked how it would be policed it was well they wont get a permit if they apply-thus forcing parking permits on us(we don't have them at the moment). To think they wont bring cars is just naïve in the extreme so the parking problem in the surrounding area will just get a whole lot worse

 

[Gwylan]

To think they wont bring cars is just naïve in the extreme so the parking problem in the surrounding area will just get a whole lot worse

I don't get this. The uni is about 200m from The Lectern/Preston Barracks, I know people are less reluctant to walk these days but I think young and fit students can manage that. Do you really think students are incapable of walking 200m?
EDIT: The first link I looked at in The Big Build document was for the new multi-storey car park being given the green light. So it looks like you're mistaken when you say that there are no parking spaces as part of the Big Build plan.

It's an amazing looking project BTW - shame they couldn't find room for a pub

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

here is the link to the uni big build -its eye opening to say the least.https://www.brighton.ac.uk/bigbuild/index.aspx?dm_i=1SNX,5S18M,G82WD0,MJNDG,1

as for car parking I have to disagree. 1400 more students concentrated in such a small space with no parking- how many will bring cars? and where will they park them?. On the streets in the surrounding areas. Its crazy, the uni say they will tell students not to bring cars as a condition of having the accommodation, however when we asked how it would be policed it was well they wont get a permit if they apply-thus forcing parking permits on us(we don't have them at the moment). To think they wont bring cars is just naïve in the extreme so the parking problem in the surrounding area will just get a whole lot worse

But isn’t permits a good thing? It allows the council to control parking or those who live there.

 

[nickbrighton]

I don't get this. The uni is about 200m from The Lectern/Preston Barracks, I know people are less reluctant to walk these days but I think young and fit students can manage that. Do you really think students are incapable of walking 200m?
EDIT: The first link I looked at in The Big Build document was for the new multi-storey car park being given the green light. So it looks like you're mistaken when you say that there are no parking spaces as part of the Big Build plan.

It's an amazing looking project BTW - shame they couldn't find room for a pub

The mullti storey car park is only for staff, its about 550 spaces .Students will not be allowed to use it. What makes you think students only use cars for getting to lectures. I use mine for shopping, visiting, going places . If a student is here from anywhere else surely they will use cars to get around outside lecture time. Plenty of students live in the surrounding roads less than 5 mins walk from the uni have cars-the fact that in term time its completely full of cars around here, and now, there is parking everywhere. Next door at one point had 5 students and 4 cars I believe-less than 2 mins walk from the uni. Whilst I agree its a very ambitious project- its been done with virtually no thought for the local residents who will now effectively live on campus, Im not sure 8 or 9 tower blocks on my doorstep is going to be a pleasant experience

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

here is the link to the uni big build -its eye opening to say the least.https://www.brighton.ac.uk/bigbuild/index.aspx?dm_i=1SNX,5S18M,G82WD0,MJNDG,1

as for car parking I have to disagree. 1400 more students concentrated in such a small space with no parking- how many will bring cars? and where will they park them?. On the streets in the surrounding areas. Its crazy, the uni say they will tell students not to bring cars as a condition of having the accommodation, however when we asked how it would be policed it was well they wont get a permit if they apply-thus forcing parking permits on us(we don't have them at the moment). To think they wont bring cars is just naïve in the extreme so the parking problem in the surrounding area will just get a whole lot worse

Firstly, the new buildings look impressive. Second, the FAQ state there will be no increase in student numbers. So all this new accommodation will free up current student accommodation in the area to hopefully be turned into normal residential homes. And if the council control the parking in the area then they can’t bring cars. Again, given the static student numbers this will result in a drop in student car numbers. All of this is surely a good thing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The mullti storey car park is only for staff, its about 550 spaces .Students will not be allowed to use it. What makes you think students only use cars for getting to lectures. I use mine for shopping, visiting, going places . If a student is here from anywhere else surely they will use cars to get around outside lecture time. Plenty of students live in the surrounding roads less than 5 mins walk from the uni have cars-the fact that in term time its completely full of cars around here, and now, there is parking everywhere. Next door at one point had 5 students and 4 cars I believe-less than 2 mins walk from the uni. Whilst I agree its a very ambitious project- its been done with virtually no thought for the local residents who will now effectively live on campus, Im not sure 8 or 9 tower blocks on my doorstep is going to be a pleasant experience

See my post above, seems to me student car numbers will surely drop if everything I have understood is correct.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Im not sure 8 or 9 tower blocks on my doorstep is going to be a pleasant experience

Ignoring the car issue for one moment, what other issues do you foresee?

 

[nickbrighton]

Firstly, the new buildings look impressive. Second, the FAQ state there will be no increase in student numbers. So all this new accommodation will free up current student accommodation in the area to hopefully be turned into normal residential homes. And if the council control the parking in the area then they can’t bring cars. Again, given the static student numbers this will result in a drop in student car numbers. All of this is surely a good thing.

they intend to move first years students from around the hospital in Edward Stand across the city to the site, so yes it does release housing stock but landlords are not forced to convert back from HMO.
Parking schemes are NOT the answer-just ask Hanover residents about their ongoing issues of paying for not parking, its just a money grab by the council and causes more problems next to the zones.
The Multi storey is NOT available to students its for staff only

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

they intend to move first years students from around the hospital in Edward Stand across the city to the site, so yes it does release housing stock but landlords are not forced to convert back from HMO.

Even if it’s not converted back I’d have thought long term residents will be better than the more transient nature of students?

Parking schemes are NOT the answer-just ask Hanover residents about their ongoing issues of paying for not parking, its just a money grab by the council and causes more problems next to the zones.

Do you currently have an issue? If not, and you dish out permits to those in the area, and students can’t get access to the permits, why would anything suddenly change for the worse (which is what you seem to be suggesting)?

 

[LlcoolJ]

A Wellquickwoody classic. Now coming all the way from the other side of the planet!

My sister-in-law lived in Australia for a while. From what she said about most blokes there, he's in the right place.

 

[pearl]

"The day-trippers slowly advancing upon the marina knew what they had come for. The sand, the sea"

Admittedly, I only ever go to Brighton now for football so not been to the beach in about a decade. When did they get rid of the pebbles? Going to get back to the article now before commenting further.

They knew what they had come for ..... doesn't mean they got it though

 

[Gwylan]

What makes you think students only use cars for getting to lectures. I use mine for shopping, visiting, going places . If a student is here from anywhere else surely they will use cars to get around outside lecture time.

Why should a student need a car? The uni is in walking distance, Sainsbury's and Aldi will be in walking distance.There's a bus stop outside with about 30 buses an hour going into town (with unlimited rides at just over a quid a day), comparing favourably with the high cost of parking. There are a couple of student-friendly pubs a short walk away, an almost unlimited supply of takeaways on the doorstep.

Sure, students may want cars but if, as you say, the council is thinking of introducing permits so that there won't be somewhere close to park their cars and they have to walk to The Avenue or Hillside to park them, would they really be worth the hassle.