[Drinking] The alternatives Real-world examples of how people do economics differently - The Bevy

[RandyWanger]

"The day-trippers slowly advancing upon the marina knew what they had come for. The sand, the sea"

Admittedly, I only ever go to Brighton now for football so not been to the beach in about a decade. When did they get rid of the pebbles? Going to get back to the article now before commenting further.

 

[Gwylan]

[MENTION=7631]wellquickwoody[/MENTION]’s comment is very mean spirited. I’m willing to bet The Bevy will still be going strong in 10 years time. The locals seemed utterly determined to smash through the accepted norms of business and reopen the pub that they’ll do their upmost to ensure it has legs.

It does good business. I was in there a few weeks ago and the place was packed.

Like others on here, I was brought up in Moulsecoomb, just a few minutes from The Bevendean (as it then was). I don't recall many fights there but it was certainly a place to go if you wanted to buy moody gear. Spend a couple of hours in there of a Saturday evening and you'd be offered all sorts. Our video recorder was nicked once and I remember spending the following evening down there in case I was offered it.

The transformation of the place is astonishing.

 

[surrey jim]

The shop was definitely called Woolvens when I was there in the 60s. He is wearing well for his age

Was gobsmacked to read this part:
"The neighbourhood officially ranks among the most deprived 3% in England. Its residents suffer from some of the worst health and education statistics in the country. Jones, a community worker, can tell you the consequences: families that have never worked; households deep in debt; adults who can’t read".

It was a bad estate when I was born there in the 50s and people generally did the three Schools and then walked over Moulsecoomb Way to the factories to work. Once the factories started closing people just stayed on the estate unemployed rather than venture further afield for work. Kids never saw the sea because people never left the Estate. It was a strange environment.

It's a strange comment to me as I know several people who live in Moulsecoomb who have bought their properties. Yes, it is a bit rough around the Birdham Road part, but the rest is now neat and tidy as any suburban area.
Didn't Chris Pobjoy move from the Cricketers in Southwick to the Bevy?

To be fair, the article states health and education, not whether the area is neat and tidy. Deprived people can still have pride.

I have lived in and around Bevendean for a few years now and can agree that many of the 'locals' have pride in their properties and the area. To me the main issue is the student population taking over. Most [but not all] properties which look untidy tend to be BTL, have front back and loft extensions and be filled with students. This brings another issue in that the local amenties are closing as local families no longer live there. The Willows doctors surgery closed last year and the schools are chronically under subscribed - Bevendean will have an intake of 29 pupils in September [capacity 60] and Moulsecoomb take in 29 puplis [capacity 90]
[MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] you are correct Chris ran the Bevy for a couple of years from launch. As I recall he came from the Romans in Southwick not Cricketers [I may be wrong]. I believe he left the Bevy to take over the running of open market.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I have lived in and around Bevendean for a few years now and can agree that many of the 'locals' have pride in their properties and the area. To me the main issue is the student population taking over. Most [but not all] properties which look untidy tend to be BTL, have front back and loft extensions and be filled with students. This brings another issue in that the local amenties are closing as local families no longer live there. The Willows doctors surgery closed last year and the schools are chronically under subscribed - Bevendean will have an intake of 29 pupils in September [capacity 60] and Moulsecoomb take in 29 puplis [capacity 90]
[MENTION=14365]Thunder Bolt[/MENTION] you are correct Chris ran the Bevy for a couple of years from launch. As I recall he came from the Romans in Southwick not Cricketers [I may be wrong]. I believe he left the Bevy to take over the running of open market.

Yes, you're right, it was the Romans. It's a shame about the Willows doctors surgery, as I went to a very good osteopath there when I had a trapped nerve in my arm.

 

[smartferndale]

The bevy

Surrey Jim you are spot on. Look at the Avenue for example. Mostly students and Coombe Road is the same. Canterbury has the same issue as do a couple of towns in Essex. I was a Lower Bevendean boy from the 50s and the general attitude from parents was for their children to do better than they had. The Bevy was the venue for mums wake. Very different from the previous time. I lived in Hillside and crisps etc on Saturday so is that my brother posting. Certainly not my sister.
Anyone here ever play for Lower Bevendean in the 60s or later. First ever match 26 0 against Nautilus training corps and promoted I think 3 divisions before the season had really started. Playing then as the youth club if I am correct. Captain Rodney Ralph?

 

[The Large One]

Like most things the left support, nice idea but won't survive in the long term.

Nothing to do with 'the left'. A totally brainless comment.

And if you read the article, you'll see they're now turning a profit. The Bevy will work all the while people want the Bevy to work.

It's got nothing to do with you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Out of interest what beers do they have? Looked at the website but it doesn’t mention anything.

 

[wellquickwoody]

[MENTION=7631]wellquickwoody[/MENTION]’s comment is very mean spirited. I’m willing to bet The Bevy will still be going strong in 10 years time. The locals seemed utterly determined to smash through the accepted norms of business and reopen the pub that they’ll do their upmost to ensure it has legs.

I hope it does do really well, I just think that market forces will prevail in the end. Pubs are a dieing concept outside of city centres, if there was money to be made (and money has to be made or losses are incurred) then a pub company would be there.

Nothing to do with 'the left'. A totally brainless comment.

And if you read the article, you'll see they're now turning a profit. The Bevy will work all the while people want the Bevy to work.

It's got nothing to do with you.

My comment about the 'left' was aimed at anti-business propaganda pushed by the Guardian and its oh so trendy readership. And it has just as much to do with me as it does the OP.

 

[Gwylan]

Out of interest what beers do they have? Looked at the website but it doesn’t mention anything.

Harvey's and a guest beer

 

[beorhthelm]

I hope it does do really well, I just think that market forces will prevail in the end. Pubs are a dieing concept outside of city centres, if there was money to be made (and money has to be made or losses are incurred) then a pub company would be there.

well that all depends on your business model, profit margins, growth targets and so on. if you dont have to factor in cost of capital for example, as a pubco does, numbers look very different. running not-for-profit or close to helps, like so many small and lifestyle businesses that only need to cover owners wage, maybe a few others, low overheads. such businesses dont scale, doesnt mean they arent sustainable.

 

[sjamesb3466]

I hope it does do really well, I just think that market forces will prevail in the end. Pubs are a dieing concept outside of city centres, if there was money to be made (and money has to be made or losses are incurred) then a pub company would be there.



My comment about the 'left' was aimed at anti-business propaganda pushed by the Guardian and its oh so trendy readership. And it has just as much to do with me as it does the OP.

The point is that with such community ventures huge profits don't have to be made.

In Leicester the local brewery is destroying its own pubs by charging more to its own landlords per cask than a freehold pub would have to pay and when a landlord makes a good profit for a year they double the rent. Good local pubs can be profitable but that is rarely enough for the big breweries that are killing their own interests in search of short term profits

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I hope it does do really well, I just think that market forces will prevail in the end. Pubs are a dieing concept outside of city centres, if there was money to be made (and money has to be made or losses are incurred) then a pub company would be there..

I’m not sure where to start with this other than to say they have got the place up and running and are now turning a profit. The pub companies you say should be there couldn’t even get their sums to add up let alone get started. Did you not read all this in the article? And did you not read there are 116 similar pubs now in Britain?

My comment about the 'left' was aimed at anti-business propaganda pushed by the Guardian and its oh so trendy readership. And it has just as much to do with me as it does the OP.

What’s anti-business about the article? It’s the exact opposite ie pro business? I’m totally baffled by your comment.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Harvey's and a guest beer

Thanks. I note the local Park Runners pop in on Saturdays for breakfast as well; I’ll try and get over there for this next time I’m in town.

 

[cunning fergus]

The estate where local people refused to call last orders
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...bevy-pub-co-operative-working-class-community

Yeah my local and my old mans for years, article glosses over the reason they shut it down.

Landlord in its normal guise allowed drug dealing so police shut it, which was absolutely disproportionate.

Glad it’s open as is, but a potentially thriving business wasn’t allowed to thrive.

My old man goes down there every week now, and as positive the story is about the local community, they have been f***ed over by the authorities who have been happy to see the hikers, white admiral, ship and royal hussar all close.

Little wonder the working class are disenfranchised.

 

[The Large One]

My comment about the 'left' was aimed at anti-business propaganda pushed by the Guardian and its oh so trendy readership. And it has just as much to do with me as it does the OP.

'Anti-business propaganda'. There is no anti-business propaganda here, from the Guardian or this mythical 'left' you've fabricated. You can't even point to any in this piece if you tried. You really don't know what you're on about.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the OP is highlighting the celebration of community achievements. You, on the other hand, are just making things up as you go along, fabricating your own fantasy.

 

[The Large One]

I’m not sure where to start with this other than to say they have got the place up and running and are now turning a profit. The pub companies you say should be there couldn’t even get their sums to add up let alone get started. Did you not read all this in the article? And did you not read there are 116 similar pubs now in Britain?

It's glaringly obvious he hasn't read the article, nor does he care to. He's already made his mind up, based on his own imagination.

 

[Gwylan]

My old man goes down there every week now, and as positive the story is about the local community, they have been f***ed over by the authorities who have been happy to see the hikers, white admiral, ship and royal hussar all close.

I'm not sure that it's the authorities, the pubs couldn't make money. The good news is that the Hiker's is set to re-open and the Royal Hussar (TirNaNog/Lectern) has now been classed as an asset of community value - meaning that steps are being taken to get it re-opened.

Sometimes pubs do close because they're dreadful - the Alexandra and the Allen Arms further along the road were pretty poor.

 

[cunning fergus]

I'm not sure that it's the authorities, the pubs couldn't make money. The good news is that the Hiker's is set to re-open and the Royal Hussar (TirNaNog/Lectern) has now been classed as an asset of community value - meaning that steps are being taken to get it re-opened.

Sometimes pubs do close because they're dreadful - the Alexandra and the Allen Arms further along the road were pretty poor.

Sure some don’t make money, but I don’t think this was the case with the Bevendean. As the last pub in that part of Moulsecoomb it had decent local traffic, it wasn’t going to be more than a local, but then the authorities should take this factor into consideration for tax etc.

When it was closed, in very short order applications were made to change it into housing units, some of which were made very quickly, it’s why the stairs to the side of the pub are now closed.

This is where the authorities and developers can act in concert to change the use of pubs to housing/commercial premises. This happened to the White Admiral when it closed despite a local campaign a good mate of mine ran to keep it open. It is a fate that has also befallen on the Hikers.

The Alex and Allen “along the road” ring no bells at all, where were these?

 

[Gwylan]

Sure some don’t make money, but I don’t think this was the case with the Bevendean. As the last pub in that part of Moulsecoomb it had decent local traffic, it wasn’t going to be more than a local, but then the authorities should take this factor into consideration for tax etc.

When it was closed, in very short order applications were made to change it into housing units, some of which were made very quickly, it’s why the stairs to the side of the pub are now closed.

This is where the authorities and developers can act in concert to change the use of pubs to housing/commercial premises. This happened to the White Admiral when it closed despite a local campaign a good mate of mine ran to keep it open. It is a fate that has also befallen on the Hikers.

The Alex and Allen “along the road” ring no bells at all, where were these?

Yes, I think it's true that local authorities have been too swift to turn pubs into houses but these are generally pubs that aren't making any money: successful pubs don't close. The Bevendean was making reasonable money but, as you pointed out, it was closed for other reasons.

I think there's a bit a change in mindset now. There was an application to change the Hikers into student accommodation but that got nowhere (Sainsbury's got short shrift too). I'm looking forward to the re-opening.

The Alex and Allen were on what is now the Vogue gyratory. The Alex is now a head shop. I only went in it a couple of times and it looked dead, apart from a few ageing alkies. The Allen became The Counting House and the White Crow before finally closing, it's now student accommodation.

 

[darkwolf666]

Like most things the left support, nice idea but won't survive in the long term.

Miserable shit, you and people like you are the very reason things like this do fail... try thinking “good for them” and not doomed to failure for a change. You never know, you might even smile!