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[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

Who will win the 2024 Presidential Election?

  • President Joe Biden - Democrat

    Votes: 3 0.7%
  • Donald Trump - Republican

    Votes: 163 40.5%
  • Vice President, Kamala Harris - Democrat

    Votes: 217 54.0%
  • Other Democratic candidate tbc

    Votes: 19 4.7%

  • Total voters
    402
  • This poll will close: .


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
What a state American politics is in. Best 2 candidates Biden or Trump.

Imo i think there mught be some truth with Trump winning, did people really want Biden as POTUS?. maybe those who voted Biden thought that he would not survive 4 years and were ready for Harris.

Anyway if Trump is in jail and also won the race for POTUS, could he be sworn in whilst in jail and the pardon himself.
Corbyn v Johnson?
 




Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
14,057
Cumbria
What a state American politics is in. Best 2 candidates Biden or Trump.

Imo i think there mught be some truth with Trump winning, did people really want Biden as POTUS?. maybe those who voted Biden thought that he would not survive 4 years and were ready for Harris.

Anyway if Trump is in jail and also won the race for POTUS, could he be sworn in whilst in jail and the pardon himself.

The issue is in 2020 Biden was largely a blank slate who stayed in the background during Obama days so everyone could write their anti Trump animus on him without even thinking about it. These days he is a more known and marmite figure so the question posed is, can he build such a broad popular front again or will people stay home or vote third party. The answer is probably but not definitely on building a winning coalition
Watching the news last night, it seemed as though USA have the lowest inflation rate for quite some time, and the lowest unemployment rate since the 1960s. Odd that Biden doesn't seem to be being given much credit for this, and elections are usually won on economics (ie: people vote for what they think will benefit them financially) - although, it's fair to say that these are odd times indeed.
 


Sid and the Sharknados

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 4, 2022
5,607
Darlington
It was only really the start of the Civil Rights movements after WW2 which saw the Democrats and Republicans swap sides of “left / right” (in reality hard right and slightly less hard right). It really increased with Nixon / Kennedy and Reagan doubled down.
The Democrats were the party of the economic left before the war (Roosevelt and the New Deal etc.)
Democratic politicians in the South would go on about State's Rights and then when they were in the North would go on about projects to support the economy and working people.
In those days most communication and media across America was still regional, so politicians could get away with being massive hypocrites.
Woodrow Wilson (Democrat), largely remembered over here for being a cuddly supporter of the rights of nations, was a racist who enabled large scale official racial segregation.
Anyway, while interesting it doesn't have any particular relevance to each party today. It's like bringing up Gaitskell's position on the Suez Crisis as an argument for not voting for Labour.
 


happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
8,154
Eastbourne
What a state American politics is in. Best 2 candidates Biden or Trump.

Imo i think there mught be some truth with Trump winning, did people really want Biden as POTUS?. maybe those who voted Biden thought that he would not survive 4 years and were ready for Harris.

Anyway if Trump is in jail and also won the race for POTUS, could he be sworn in whilst in jail and the pardon himself.

As I understand it, he could pardon himself from federal convictions but only the governor can pardon state convictions.
 








drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,529
Burgess Hill
No, he lost to Hilary but won the Electoral College. Only twice has a candidate won the popular vote but not become president, Al Gore in 2000 and Hillary in 2016. Flawed system but at least Gore and Clinton had the character to accept the outcome and publically concede to make way for the president-elect. Trump knew he had lost, there's no doubt about that. He knew he lost and fought on anyway with various schemes. The evidence is overwhelming and clear and all his public statements dramatically contradict what he is recorded as having said privately. He's a grifter and a cult leader, nothing more.

Justice will be served.
And let's be honest, Al Gore had more reason than Trump to take issue with the result in Florida!
 


NooBHA

Well-known member
Jan 13, 2015
8,591
It beggars belief that Trump and his lawyers can seriously deny that he conspireed to overturn his 2020 election defeat. The footage of him sending his mob off to attack the White House is irrefutable evidence. So, TBH, is Pence's evidence (if he stays alive long enough to give it).

Deluded, mad, or plain evil - or just trying not to be outdone in shithousery by Putin?
The US has a major problem come the 2024 Election.

When that Ninja company did their Audit at the last Election in the swing states. They had access to ballot papers for close to 3 months pretending too what everyone thought was auditing the 2020 Election.

No one knows what information they could have extracted during those 3 months. All they needed to have done is extract names and addresses. Then when 2024 comes along. Have passed that information on to someone like Russia. They in turn could flood the next Election with fake mail in votes from those Voters in the swing states.

Granted they wouldn't tabulate through the voting machines but they would be hand counted and then when the real voters voted as well there would be duplicated votes which would at the very least cause mass confusion enough for Trump's Team to have all them thrown out which would mean that the ones who voted for Biden would be cast aside.

A very worrying thought 🤔
 




Motogull

Todd Warrior
Sep 16, 2005
10,410
He has quite a lot on his plate. I pinched this off the beeb:

Trump now faces five upcoming trials - three criminal trials which include the classified documents case, the hush money case, and these election charges; and two civil trials over business practices and alleged defamation of a woman who accused him of rape.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,582
Brighton
He has quite a lot on his plate. I pinched this off the beeb:

Trump now faces five upcoming trials - three criminal trials which include the classified documents case, the hush money case, and these election charges; and two civil trials over business practices and alleged defamation of a woman who accused him of rape.
It’s frustrating that his campaign donations are covering all the legal expenses. Any normal person would be crushed financially over these trials.
 


Hugo Rune

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 23, 2012
23,582
Brighton
The Georgia charges have dropped:

“The charge sheet refers to the defendants as a "criminal organization", accusing them of a number of crimes, including:

  • False statements and writings
  • Impersonating a public officer
  • Forgery
  • Filing false documents
  • Influencing witnesses
  • Computer trespass
  • Conspiracy to defraud the state
  • Theft and perjury.
The most serious charge, violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (Rico) Act, is punishable by a maximum of 20 years in prison.” BBC

They are going after him in the same way they’d go after a mafia gang.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
72,193
The Georgia charges have dropped:

“The charge sheet refers to the defendants as a "criminal organization", accusing them of a number of crimes, including:

  • False statements and writings
  • Impersonating a public officer
  • Forgery
  • Filing false documents
  • Influencing witnesses
  • Computer trespass
  • Conspiracy to defraud the state
  • Theft and perjury.
The most serious charge, violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (Rico) Act, is punishable by a maximum of 20 years in prison.” BBC

They are going after him in the same way they’d go after a mafia gang.
If that little lot doesn't bar him from running for public office then nothing will
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
28,239
The Georgia charges have dropped:

“The charge sheet refers to the defendants as a "criminal organization", accusing them of a number of crimes, including:

  • False statements and writings
  • Impersonating a public officer
  • Forgery
  • Filing false documents
  • Influencing witnesses
  • Computer trespass
  • Conspiracy to defraud the state
  • Theft and perjury.
The most serious charge, violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (Rico) Act, is punishable by a maximum of 20 years in prison.” BBC

They are going after him in the same way they’d go after a mafia gang.
For me, the attempted corruption in Georgia stood out as the most succinct and incredible example of Trump's ignorance ,arrogance and stupidity. ...The phone call to the Republican Governor asking him to " Find me another 11,000 votes ....you can just say you miscalculated ? " would and should have ended his political career on the spot.

The fact that it hasn't yet is truly frightening in a supposed Democratic society.
 








Albion my Albion

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Feb 6, 2016
19,571
Indiana, USA
The phone call to the Republican Governor asking him to " Find me another 11,000 votes ....you can just say you miscalculated ? " would and should have ended his political career on the spot.

I know it's difficult to keep this straight but one more time, Brad Raffensperger, the Georgia SECRETARY OF STATE, the state official in charge of elections, was the person on the other side of the phone call Trump initiated that strong armed the state official. Thank God it was a recorded conference call.

This is a video of an Atlanta, Georgia News program with parts of the phone call.

 
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Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
9,095
The Georgia charges have dropped:

“The charge sheet refers to the defendants as a "criminal organization", accusing them of a number of crimes, including:

  • False statements and writings
  • Impersonating a public officer
  • Forgery
  • Filing false documents
  • Influencing witnesses
  • Computer trespass
  • Conspiracy to defraud the state
  • Theft and perjury.
The most serious charge, violating the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (Rico) Act, is punishable by a maximum of 20 years in prison.” BBC

They are going after him in the same way they’d go after a mafia gang.
There are so many things Trump should be in jail for, but in relation to his electoral crimes these charges seem the best chance of locking him up. He should also go down in the Jan 6 trial although I can see he him wriggling free there.

Thank goodness he is finally being held to account, his guilt is there for all to see but as we live in a world where the truth of the matter is meaningless I am not holding my breath on justice actually being served.
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,731
hassocks
What a state American politics is in. Best 2 candidates Biden or Trump.

Imo i think there mught be some truth with Trump winning, did people really want Biden as POTUS?. maybe those who voted Biden thought that he would not survive 4 years and were ready for Harris.

Anyway if Trump is in jail and also won the race for POTUS, could he be sworn in whilst in jail and the pardon himself.
Desantis v Newsom isn't much better.

I guess they might both be able to walk down stairs without falling over, so it's an improvement on Trump and Biden
 




Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,423
Vilamoura, Portugal
As I understand it, he could pardon himself from federal convictions but only the governor can pardon state convictions.
It's arguable whether the constitution allows him to pardon himself. There are "legal scholars" stating both positions. If it happened, which I'm pretty sure it won't, it will end up in the Supreme Court, which is dominated by Christofascist Trumpists. Would they dare to rule in his favour? Well, they've already dared to make several Christofascist decisions in other cases e.g. overturning Roe v Wade, so I suspect they would.
 


Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
8,423
Vilamoura, Portugal
There are so many things Trump should be in jail for, but in relation to his electoral crimes these charges seem the best chance of locking him up. He should also go down in the Jan 6 trial although I can see he him wriggling free there.

Thank goodness he is finally being held to account, his guilt is there for all to see but as we live in a world where the truth of the matter is meaningless I am not holding my breath on justice actually being served.
The classified documents case should be a slam-dunk. Only 3 defendants, no racketeering conspiracy charges to prove in court, and they have audio and video evidence proving his guilt. They even have him on tape confirming he didn't declassify the documents and he shouldn't be showing them to the journos in the room.
 


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