[News] Texas school shooting

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I can't be arsed with you anymore, forget numbers, it's been analysed over and over again. Guns Kill, More guns the higher chance of an accident or being used or stolen to commit murder or crime. no point in arguing this point anymore, America's problem fortunately, not ours.

I can't read the prancing ninny's posts because I blocked him. There is no point debating with nasty right wing trolls. Just a thought.....

 

[McTavish]

I know I will probably get flamed for this opinion, given that it is a football forum, and that a large %age of posters seem to be chaps (including I), but the glaring thing that is still being under discussed is that this mass killer was - shock, horror - male. Blame it on toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, misogyny - whatever - but it is evident to me that there is a global need to instill empathy into our young men. The latest reports suggest the Santa Fe HS shooter was trying to get back at a female student who was rejecting his advances. This comes a couple of weeks after the bloke who ran down folks in Toronto was suspected of being aligned to the "incel" movement, and of being inspired by another killer in Santa Barbara.

Sadly, of course, rape and sexual violence have been around for millennia. Some will point to biology, others enculturation. Also it has to be said that the feminist movement has made great advances over the last 50 years or so, and on the whole, conditions for half the world's population have improved in many places. However, it seems to me that in the virtual world - where impressionable teens spend a huge amount of time - there are things happening in the intersection of gaming, pornography and nationalistic/conspiratorial politics/fake news, that are: a) very anti-feminist/misogynistic and b) very good at dismantling empathy. I don't visit these areas, so my hunch might be nonsense, but I am very concerned about the hate that is seemingly being incubated, and is being taken to horrific extremes by some isolated young men.

Indded. Imagine the reaction if almost every mass shooter was a woman.
The

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You mean it took you over a year to figure that out?

Having that orange faced goon standing on the world stage representing the worlds principal superpower isn't just terrifying its the best evidence we have that the human race has reached the end of the road. It is all downhill to oblivion for us.it'll take the USA many years to recover and repair the damage that Trump has done so far...he's got another 3 years to totally destroy everything that they've built since 1776.

I share your disdain for the pouting candyfloss coiffed tiny handed weirdo but, to be fair, he is doing nothing much different from anything any of his predecessors did. Trump didn't introduce gun ownership to the US. On the other hand, he might claim to have done so in a tweet....

 

[looney]

I can't be arsed with you anymore, forget numbers, it's been analysed over and over again. Guns Kill, More guns the higher chance of an accident or being used or stolen to commit murder or crime. no point in arguing this point anymore, America's problem fortunately, not ours.

But not switzerland...

 

[looney]

It’s your numbers that don’t add up.

13,286 people were killed in the US by firearms in 2015 where gun control is pretty much non existent.

26 people were killed in the UK by firearms in 2015 where gun control is tight.

Misquoting stats, gun crime and knife crime have been heading up in the UK.

 

[looney]

I can't read the prancing ninny's posts because I blocked him. There is no point debating with nasty right wing trolls. Just a thought.....

Box of tissues needed in Aisle 9.

 

[Gritt23]

Misquoting stats, gun crime and knife crime have been heading up in the UK.

So, what's YOUR answer [MENTION=277]looney[/MENTION] ? Are you just offering "thoughts and prayers" or do you have an idea that will help. Knocking everyone else's solution is all well and good, but what would you do?

 

[Stat Brother]

So, what's YOUR answer [MENTION=277]looney[/MENTION] ? Are you just offering "thoughts and prayers" or do you have an idea that will help. Knocking everyone else's solution is all well and good, but what would you do?

More guns?

 

[Gritt23]

Sadly I don't see that any US Government will ever do anything. If the Sandy Hook shooting can happen, when there is a guy in the White House who wants to bring in gun control, and everyone is horried by what had just happened, and it still brought about absolutely no change whatsoever, then I just can't see anyone doing anything.

It's all risk for the Givernment that does it, because there will always be people like [MENTION=277]looney[/MENTION] who just shoot down (pun intended) any suggestion of progress, and whatever was brought in would soon have the NRA publicising like crazy each and every victim in the following weeks who otherwise claims they would have had a gun to defend themselves. Meanwhile the Government who come in cannot put up pictures of kids that would have otherwise died in a school attack because life doesn't work that way. Even when school shooting stats go down, the stats are not as emotive as the picture of a victim (and there would be some) who everyone says "would have replaced his old assault rifle except the new restrictions meant he couldn't" etc.

Personally, tighter gun controls has to be the only logical way to progress. Yes "criminals" would still get guns, it happens here. But would that geeky, loner, who hates school and his fellow classmates go downtown to do a deal with a local gang to buy an illegal gun? I'd say it's going to happen far less than the alternative of walking into a store with some (fake if underage) ID and buy from a shop assistant who doesn't really care whether the ID looks genuine or not.

 

[Gritt23]

More guns?

That's what I'm expecting.

 

[portslade seagull]

Sadly I don't see that any US Government will ever do anything. If the Sandy Hook shooting can happen, when there is a guy in the White House who wants to bring in gun control, and everyone is horried by what had just happened, and it still brought about absolutely no change whatsoever, then I just can't see anyone doing anything.

It's all risk for the Givernment that does it, because there will always be people like [MENTION=277]looney[/MENTION] who just shoot down (pun intended) any suggestion of progress, and whatever was brought in would soon have the NRA publicising like crazy each and every victim in the following weeks who otherwise claims they would have had a gun to defend themselves. Meanwhile the Government who come in cannot put up pictures of kids that would have otherwise died in a school attack because life doesn't work that way. Even when school shooting stats go down, the stats are not as emotive as the picture of a victim (and there would be some) who everyone says "would have replaced his old assault rifle except the new restrictions meant he couldn't" etc.

Personally, tighter gun controls has to be the only logical way to progress. Yes "criminals" would still get guns, it happens here. But would that geeky, loner, who hates school and his fellow classmates go downtown to do a deal with a local gang to buy an illegal gun? I'd say it's going to happen far less than the alternative of walking into a store with some (fake if underage) ID and buy from a shop assistant who doesn't really care whether the ID looks genuine or not.

Three words .. The second amendment .. or another three NRA. Americans in general seem more than reluctant to do anything about either. The stockpiles amassed by gun enthusiasts would negate any attempt at control anyway. They will just keep going on as if nothings happened.

 

[Fungus]

More guns?

TBH, if NSC were arguing for more guns, I'd expect looney to argue the opposite, just for fun.

 

[Gritt23]

Three words .. The second amendment .. or another three NRA. Americans in general seem more than reluctant to do anything about either. The stockpiles amassed by gun enthusiasts would negate any attempt at control anyway. They will just keep going on as if nothings happened.

The Constitution does continue to have amendments, so this is a totally irrelevant argument. Would you have justified slavery, or the no right to vote for blacks on the existing constitution or would you have seen the problem and joined the campaign for the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to come into place? I know which camp I'd have been in.

Ludicrous that anyone should state that something which seemed relevant and correct for society in 1791 should have any relevance today, let alone such huge significance that American people continue to watch their children getting gunned down because of it.

For clarity the "you" wasn't necessarily aimed at you personally, more generic to those who hide behind the Constitutional arguments, which isn't how your post read.

However on the enthusiasts with a stockpile ..... I don't see them as the people who are marching into schools armed to the teeth. Even if it is, then we need some control to prevent the next wave of angry teenagers not getting to that stage with a cache of weapons under their bed. Doing nothing, pointed at the open gate and the horse bolting into the distance is just not good enough. But tragically, it is what I believe will continue to happen.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Please don't, our resident Australian based dickhead will be along soon to set us straight...

Keep up with the news ****wit.

Authorities in Western Australia responded early Friday morning to a home in Osmington, not far from Perth, where the four children and three adults were found dead from gunshot wounds, according to local news reports.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

 

[scamander]

The idea that bringing in stricter gun controls would alleviate the problem isn't always the case, often the guns aren't in possession legally (i.e. bought illegally or borrowed from a relative, I think a few of the recent shootings involved the kid stealing the guns from people who had legally bought them). The analogy would be making driving tests more stringent after a spate of incidents in which kids are hot wiring cars and using them to run people over.

What would help is the media to agree not to create a cult of the shooter in question. So report the incident and cover it, just don't name the person or have photos etc of them. You'll often find that X was inspired by a previous shooter and wants the infamy they had.

Remove that dynamic and it'll help a bit.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

The idea that bringing in stricter gun controls would alleviate the problem isn't always the case, often the guns aren't in possession legally (i.e. bought illegally or borrowed from a relative, I think a few of the recent shootings involved the kid stealing the guns from people who had legally bought them)..

Yet gun owners will continue to claim they are responsible gun owners who keep their weapons safe.

At which point, as highlighted in the Jim Jeffries clip, you ask, "So if someone breaks in, you think you have time to run to your safe, unlock it, get the gun out and 'protect yourself".

It's ludicrous

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Yet gun owners will continue to claim they are responsible gun owners who keep their weapons safe.

At which point, as highlighted in the Jim Jeffries clip, you ask, "So if someone breaks in, you think you have time to run to your safe, unlock it, get the gun out and 'protect yourself".

It's ludicrous

It actually happens quite often. There's two examples, plenty more. It's only reported on local TV stations as it's only seen as local news.

 

[scamander]

Yet gun owners will continue to claim they are responsible gun owners who keep their weapons safe.

At which point, as highlighted in the Jim Jeffries clip, you ask, "So if someone breaks in, you think you have time to run to your safe, unlock it, get the gun out and 'protect yourself".

It's ludicrous

That is true, but it's the argument employed when people ask for stricter gun controls. It's really about how easily guns can be accessed. Imagine that you are a responsible gun owner and you have your guns in a locked container. You have a nephew who you have taken to the shooting range a few times and given an overview of correct gun maintenance etc. That nephew knows where you store the guns and keep the key. One day he shoots up the school.

Ok, it's a very specific incident and I'm wary of being seen as supporting one line of thinking. In reality I'm trying to point out the grey areas, I think the car analogy holds here (albeit as much as an analogy can). If I had time I'd go and find the examples of recent shootings and how the gun was obtained, I do remember reading that most instances wouldn't have been affected by stricter gun rules (without the evidence I cannot make that claim).

I think more can be done by eroding the 'fame' the shooters get in the media, reduce this appeal and it might make a difference. But it's an incredibly complex situation.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If they truly want to fix these issues fix the health system in regards to mental illness.

Plenty of other nations have guns. They just have a better system to deal with their mentally ill.

The majority of these shooters have mental illnesses that have gone unseen or unchecked.