Term time Dad loses in the Supreme Court

[portlock seagull]

Would you be happy to go in for extra work on your holidays? Would you be happy to do training days on bank holidays or in your Christmas holidays?

In answer to your question. No, teachers do not get the same holidays as the children. I have had this debate numerous times on here, it is the equivalent of me saying that a business person only works when they are presenting, any preparations, research and planning for business is a holiday, any meetings are days off. In fact, any meetings business people have should be made in their own time or in their personal holiday.

So what you're really saying is loads of non-experts unlike yourself are talking shite? Well, ain't that the truth!! Good post

 

[Bold Seagull]

This,

I fail to see how parents who go out to work and pay their Taxes can have "other people are paying for your childs education" thrown at them.

Of course they can. State education is paid for by general taxation paid by the population and businesses whether they use the education system or not, making education free at the point of delivery. Just because I've paid tax, doesn't mean my children's state education isn't paid for by others - of course it is, I pay enough tax, but not that much!

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

I'm an ex teacher, so when weighing in I am slightly biased, but I believe the decision to be 100% correct.

Yes, there is an argument that children need experiences out of the classroom (although a trip to Florida isn't exactly educational), but this ruling isn't stopping people taking their children out, it is just asking them to pay a fine (and a tiny one at that) for the right to have a cheaper holiday. This seems fair to me.

In regards to whether taking your children out of school during term time has a negative effect on thei education, then the answer is emphatically yes, for 99% of students. The reason for this is that most students simply don't have the drive or wherewithal to catch up on their missed work. This often has many knock on effects down the line in terms of grades and progress.

However, the biggest reason why it's the correct decision is actually a legal rule. It would open the floodgates to parents to take their children out of school on a whim, with no limit to when or how often children could be taken from school without repercussion. It is often bad enough if one child misses a week or two but if you suddenly have 4, 5 or 6 doing it, then the added workload on a teacher, plus the increased stress on the pupils, added to the worsening behaviour as children suffer from increased levels of confusion, would simply not be manageable in most classroom situations, particularly as resources at most schools are already stretched to breaking point (and only getting worse!).

 

[Triggaaar]

Can I do the same with my council tax

Well you're going to have to if you can't afford it.

 

[Triggaaar]

Office job- 9 to 5 with a lunch break, no work outside of those hours. Average 7 hours a day. 25 days holiday a year

Where's Dr No? 7 hours a day my arse.

Teaching job - 7-6 with a 30 min lunchbreak. Additional duties. Evening marking, planning and preparation. Average 10-12 hours a day.

Nah, I ain't buying that.

40 days holiday a year.

What? They get 13 weeks. Plus the other bank holiday.

If you want an impartial opinion then ask any posters on here that are married to or in a relationship with a teacher to give you an honest answer to the amount of hours they put it.

I do know teachers, and it's certainly not 'turn up at 9, done at 3:30' all the time, but they're not doing 50/60 hours a week (unless it's a new job).

 

[Geestar]

No, I did not say that. We have longer holidays but the average working days and work outside of school is much longer than many other jobs. If I compare my job working in an office to teaching for example:

Office job- 9 to 5 with a lunch break, no work outside of those hours. Average 7 hours a day. 25 days holiday a year

Teaching job - 7-6 with a 30 min lunchbreak. Additional duties. Evening marking, planning and preparation. Average 10-12 hours a day. 40 days holiday a year.

If I compare the two jobs then teaching is the far more demanding in terms of man hours over the course of the year. However, we are rewarded with longer holidays which I like so that is fair enough.

If you want an impartial opinion then ask any posters on here that are married to or in a relationship with a teacher to give you an honest answer to the amount of hours they put it.

Spot on.

I was a teacher but wouldnt dream of going back. My office job is way cushier.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Where's Dr No? 7 hours a day my arse.

Nah, I ain't buying that.
What? They get 13 weeks. Plus the other bank holiday.

I do know teachers, and it's certainly not 'turn up at 9, done at 3:30' all the time, but they're not doing 50/60 hours a week (unless it's a new job).

Most are, at least they are if they're any good. And find me a teacher that doesn't spend a good 50% of their holiday time working, and, again, I'll find you a teacher that isn't very good. Yes it gives them flexibility about when they work within those weeks, but most are working a large portion of the time. Plus, you know, more expensive holidays.

The long and the short of it is that you're simply wrong, and trying to state otherwise like it's a fact isn't supporting your argument in any way.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I do know teachers, and it's certainly not 'turn up at 9, done at 3:30' all the time, but they're not doing 50/60 hours a week (unless it's a new job).

Statistics show a primary school teacher does 59.3 hours per week on average, a secondary school teacher 55.7 hours per week.

 

[Triggaaar]

Statistics show a primary school teacher does 59.3 hours per week on average, a secondary school teacher 55.7 hours per week.

How have they worked those figures out? Did they ask Teachers how many hours they do?

 

[Iggle Piggle]

No, I did not say that. We have longer holidays but the average working days and work outside of school is much longer than many other jobs. If I compare my job working in an office to teaching for example:

Office job- 9 to 5 with a lunch break, no work outside of those hours. Average 7 hours a day. 25 days holiday a year

Teaching job - 7-6 with a 30 min lunchbreak. Additional duties. Evening marking, planning and preparation. Average 10-12 hours a day. 40 days holiday a year.

If I compare the two jobs then teaching is the far more demanding in terms of man hours over the course of the year. However, we are rewarded with longer holidays which I like so that is fair enough.

If you want an impartial opinion then ask any posters on here that are married to or in a relationship with a teacher to give you an honest answer to the amount of hours they put it.

No wonder kids are useless at Maths if this is the kind of stats we are teaching them. 6 weeks in the summer (30 working days), 2 weeks at Easter (8 excluding bank holidays) and Christmas (7) plus 3 half terms (14) is nearer 60 than 40 accepting that you may be over the summer to give out A-level results or the like depending on what age you are teaching. One of my mates is a teacher and had a training day on Cheltenham Gold cup day where he appeared for the 1st race. I've no doubt teachers work hard but spare us the 40 days holiday and working till midnight checking spelling gubbins. Similarly, If you also believe an office job is 9-5 with a 2 hour lunch and luzzing paper aeroplanes in the afternoons - That was the 1980's. Most Corporate companies are working on tight margins which means those of us left here after countless rounds of redundancies are working their tits off.

With regards to this case, there should be an ability to use discretion rather than binary rules. Parents at our school took their kid out of school for one day to go to Lapland. They were fined whilst the rest of the class sat and watched Elf.

 

[Bold Seagull]

How have they worked those figures out? Did they ask Teachers how many hours they do?

Well, clearly the basis of your argument is from a couple of people you know who are teachers. You're hardly in a position to question the validity of a professionally prepared set of statistics.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Whilst I can understand the rules, a parent at my daughters school cannot take holidays during the school holidays due to his occupation, he's a bit of stickler to the rules, so due to this his family haven't had a holiday for over 5 years.

Whilst that's his choice and I admire him for it, I can't help thinking his child is missing out on so many potentially wonderful experiences.

My daughter on the other hand has been to 6 different counties in her short life, and has experienced all the different cultures, languages, so many different ways of life, religions etc.

I really dont think education is all about being in the class room and that different life experiences are invaluable.
Just my thoughts and I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer.

So this friend/parent is unable to take leave during the six week summer break, the two week Easter break AND the two week Xmas break? And seeing as a foreign holiday can be just a week how about the three 1 week half term breaks? He is either a liar or a fool.

 

[Wilko]

Are you 100% sure of that? I knew many office workers who would finish off a job leaving, or get in early, without any overtime. Don't judge someone til you've walked a mile in their shoes.

I did not judge anyone. I highlighted MY office job. When I did that job I swiped out at 5 and that was that.

 

[Murray 17]

No, I did not say that. We have longer holidays but the average working days and work outside of school is much longer than many other jobs. If I compare my job working in an office to teaching for example:

Office job- 9 to 5 with a lunch break, no work outside of those hours. Average 7 hours a day. 25 days holiday a year

Teaching job - 7-6 with a 30 min lunchbreak. Additional duties. Evening marking, planning and preparation. Average 10-12 hours a day. 40 days holiday a year.

If I compare the two jobs then teaching is the far more demanding in terms of man hours over the course of the year. However, we are rewarded with longer holidays which I like so that is fair enough.

If you want an impartial opinion then ask any posters on here that are married to or in a relationship with a teacher to give you an honest answer to the amount of hours they put it.

[emoji122]

The issue of teachers bring accused of 'bunking off' for INSET days is incredibly frustrating!

About 30 years ago teachers and children went to school for 190 days per year. The Education Secretary at the time thought it was a good idea to add 5 days' teacher training to the school year. He therefore added 5 days to teachers' contracts. Each authority therefore allocates 195 days per year to schooling, and individual schools choose when to allocate their INSET days.

It would not be productive to have them all in one go, and if a school needs a particular 'trainer', they have to book them when they are free. Therefore, on occasions, it is necessary to have a Wednesday during term-time, for example. It might be inconvenient for parents, but it is their children that benefit in the long-run.

And after all, education is for the benefit of children.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

well you're going to have to if you can't afford it.

that's not my point
regards
DR

 

[Wilko]

Where's Dr No? 7 hours a day my arse.

Nah, I ain't buying that.
What? They get 13 weeks. Plus the other bank holiday.

I do know teachers, and it's certainly not 'turn up at 9, done at 3:30' all the time, but they're not doing 50/60 hours a week (unless it's a new job).

1. How do you know what hours I did in an office job. It was 9-5 with a 40 minute lunch
2. Tell me your job, how many hours you work and I will tell you that you are lying
3. The CHILDREN get 12 weeks holiday a year

 

[Wilko]

No wonder kids are useless at Maths if this is the kind of stats we are teaching them. 6 weeks in the summer (30 working days), 2 weeks at Easter (8 excluding bank holidays) and Christmas (7) plus 3 half terms (14) is nearer 60 than 40 accepting that you may be over the summer to give out A-level results or the like depending on what age you are teaching. One of my mates is a teacher and had a training day on Cheltenham Gold cup day where he appeared for the 1st race. I've no doubt teachers work hard but spare us the 40 days holiday and working till midnight checking spelling gubbins. Similarly, If you also believe an office job is 9-5 with a 2 hour lunch and luzzing paper aeroplanes in the afternoons - That was the 1980's. Most Corporate companies are working on tight margins which means those of us left here after countless rounds of redundancies are working their tits off.

With regards to this case, there should be an ability to use discretion rather than binary rules. Parents at our school took their kid out of school for one day to go to Lapland. They were fined whilst the rest of the class sat and watched Elf.

Are you a ****ing idiot? Why are you working the holiday of a teacher based on what the children get?

As for MY office job, I am telling you what the hours were. I spent the majority of the day going for coffee breaks and surfing the internet too.

Tell me your job and let me have a go at telling you what you do all day and how many hours you really do?

 

[beorhthelm]

Statistics show a primary school teacher does 59.3 hours per week on average, a secondary school teacher 55.7 hours per week.

~60 average? really? that means many thousands doing 70-80 to offset the thousands doing 40-50, or maybe those statistics are flawed.

 

[mothy]

Good.

Means less people will be inclined to take theirs away in September when I always take my holidays for the sole reason of NOT having to put up with other peoples brats.

It won't put me off. £240 fine is peanuts. Don't worry. I doubt you'll be holidaying where I am

 

[Wilko]

[emoji122]

The issue of teachers bring accused of 'bunking off' for INSET days is incredibly frustrating!

About 30 years ago teachers and children went to school for 190 days per year. The Education Secretary at the time thought it was a good idea to add 5 days' teacher training to the school year. He therefore added 5 days to teachers' contracts. Each authority therefore allocates 195 days per year to schooling, and individual schools choose when to allocate their INSET days.

It would not be productive to have them all in one go, and if a school needs a particular 'trainer', they have to book them when they are free. Therefore, on occasions, it is necessary to have a Wednesday during term-time, for example. It might be inconvenient for parents, but it is their children that benefit in the long-run.

And after all, education is for the benefit of children.

Mate, anyone that still thinks an inset day is a day off for teachers is a bit dim to be honest. I will have to remind anyone that works in business that any meetings they have are days off and should be carried out in their own personal holidays.