Teachers Strike

[JCL - the new kid in town]

So what about the role of parents in all of this? It is a teachers job to TEACH children not bring them up. When you have kids that get to primary school at 4-5 years of age, who cannot read or write or are toilet trained it's a disgrace.

you want 4 year olds to be able to read and write when they start school

 

[Creaky]

OK, what actions have the NUT and its members taken in relation to the current issue ? Work to rule - no, boycott of paperwork - no, boycott of after school work - no, they went straight to .... strike.

Have a read of this and you will see that various types of action have been 'suggested' by the NUT and NASUWT including the ones you mention. The problem is that rigid adherence to these would disadvantage the children and have very little public impact - so much so that it appears the majority of teachers haven't followed the union's instructions.

A one day strike will probably have less of an impact on an individual child's education but the public awareness has been infinitely greater.

http://www.teachers.org.uk/files/ActionGuidance-9117.pdf

This dispute has been going on for coming upto two years now!

 

[Creaky]

you want 4 year olds to be able to read and write when they start school

Why not?

 

[BLOCK F]

The problem I have is with the attitude of degree holders when they are starting off in employment. They should start at the bottom as everyone does. Work your way up with hard work and perseverance. There still appears to be an attitude of the "fast track to manager" as there was in banking in the late 80's and early 90's. That attitude has put the country on it's knees. Some careers require the extra study - science, medicine, vets, law etc but there's far too many people taking degrees across a ridiculous set of subjects thinking it entitles them to some special treatment when it comes to the job market.

I agree with much of what you say.
Trouble is ,at many schools,pupils are guided/misguided into believing that the only thing to do when they leave school is to go to uni and get a degree.
When I questioned this at my youngest child's school,the teacher looked at me as if I was daft.
Trouble is ,this is the only path that many teachers have trodden and know about.Career advice in many instances is abysmal or non existent.Too many youngsters end up going to uni to study degrees that are of little value,when they may well have been better off following another route to a career.
Problem is too many university degrees are dished out and are therefore devalued.We are going to have more and more disillusioned heavily indebted graduates in this country than we know what to do with.

 

[Notters]

Utter, utter rubbish. Unions have a done a tremendous amount of positive work for the benefit of this country and population as a whole which is very well summed up in this article:

http://www.fleetstreetfox.com/2011/11/what-have-unions-ever-done-for-us.html

Yet amid the scaremongering about how the country will grind to a halt is the oft-held belief that the union movement is bad for business and bad for people.

Except without that same union movement we would not have:
Two-day weekends
Eight-hour working days
Maternity leave
Retirement ages
Occupational health and safety
Workplace pensions
Paid holidays
Equality laws
The right not to be sacked because you got married, had a baby, or became ill (strange how they're seen as similar things)
Pay increases
The minimum wage
Collective bargaining
The right for the working classes to organise themselves
A standard of living above that of 1850s Britain
Oh, and children would still be going up chimneys.

A lot of people, and I mean a lot, don't have the things in bold. Particularly in the catering industry!

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Why not?

It depends on what you class as reading and writing i suppose and some 4 year olds will be able to but there will be others that this is too much for at 4

Edit: i also know of parents that have been told off for not teaching their children the right way to read

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

A lot of people, and I mean a lot, don't have the things in bold. Particularly in the catering industry!

And that is my trade unions are still important and relevant today.

 

[hart's shirt]

Bloody Militants the lot if them . It's cost me a fortune today in Pier rides , donuts, babybchinos , and Tinkerbell/Spider-Man magazines.

It would have cost a lot more if you'd have taken the kids with you.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I agree with much of what you say.
Trouble is ,at many schools,pupils are guided/misguided into believing that the only thing to do when they leave school is to go to uni and get a degree.
When I questioned this at my youngest child's school,the teacher looked at me as if I was daft.
Trouble is ,this is the only path that many teachers have trodden and know about.Career advice in many instances is abysmal or non existent.Too many youngsters end up going to uni to study degrees that are of little value,when they may well have been better off following another route to a career.
Problem is too many university degrees are dished out and are therefore devalued.We are going to have more and more disillusioned heavily indebted graduates in this country than we know what to do with.

Indeed. Rewind nearly 30 years and the careers advice I received at school / 6th Form - "go to Uni". The look I got when I said no I want to go out and earn some money made me feel like I was something unpleasant you stepped in. Nice to see careers advice hasn't moved on one iota !

 

[nicko31]

Being a teacher is harder than it used to be, but isn't every job these days? To their credit teachers today are better than a generation ago.

As public sector goes they do pretty well with a final salary pension still intact, extended hols and some benefits Jonny private sector can only dream off.

Made me laugh today when I heard a striking head on the radio saying "We're only doing it for the children".....

 

[Goring-by-Seagull]

you want 4 year olds to be able to read and write when they start school

I told my son I would drown him if he couldn't read by the age of 3. He couldn't. But I didn't have the heart to follow it through so I gave him another year, and by 4 he could read. And can still read now. Voila.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

I told my son I would drown him if he couldn't read by the age of 3. He couldn't. But I didn't have the heart to follow it through so I gave him another year, and by 4 he could read. And can still read now. Voila.

well done. what level of reading though are we talking about? a few words? whole sentences? whole books? I don't disagree that the parents need to take some responsibility but you can't expect all kids to be at that level at 4

 

[Goring-by-Seagull]

well done. what level of reading though are we talking about? a few words? whole sentences? whole books? I don't disagree that the parents need to take some responsibility but you can't expect all kids to be at that level at 4

You're right, we're not all equal and some pick things up quicker than others. But with kids starting school they should surely know the alphabet and the phonetics, so they arrive at least having a basic knowledge.

I'm no expert, I'm no teacher, but I made a good effort from 18 months ish to teach him to read. Whether it made much difference I guess I won't know but I gave it a good shot!

So I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a disgrace that some kids starting school can't read or write, but parents not bothering and expecting teachers to teach them everything - that is the disgrace.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

You're right, we're not all equal and some pick things up quicker than others. But with kids starting school they should surely know the alphabet and the phonetics, so they arrive at least having a basic knowledge.

I'm no expert, I'm no teacher, but I made a good effort from 18 months ish to teach him to read. Whether it made much difference I guess I won't know but I gave it a good shot!

So I wouldn't go as far as saying it's a disgrace that some kids starting school can't read or write, but parents not bothering and expecting teachers to teach them everything - that is the disgrace.

yes i agree. Yes i do think most kids should know the alphabet and at least be able to write their name, but i don't class that as being able to read and write though.

 

[Triggaaar]

No sympathy here, if you don't like the job change careers.

When people don't like their job, or the salary etc, they can go and work for another company. But that's not so easy when they work in the public sector, as most of the jobs are provided by the government, and the salaries are controlled. And I don't think it's fair to expect people to change careers.

But specifically re teachers: my wife wanted to do a PGCE 22 years ago, and we discussed the fact that teaching salaries were very poor, so she didn't do it. Teaching salaries now compared to back then are very good in my opinion, so I don't have much sympathy for someone that's chosen teaching as a career, knowing what the salary is like, who then complains about the salary.

But is that what this particular strike is about (I have no idea), or are they complaining about changes in working conditions (some of the administrative crap they have to do is a joke)?

well done. what level of reading though are we talking about? a few words? whole sentences? whole books? I don't disagree that the parents need to take some responsibility but you can't expect all kids to be at that level at 4

Not many kids can read before they start school.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It depends on what you class as reading and writing i suppose and some 4 year olds will be able to but there will be others that this is too much for at 4

Edit: i also know of parents that have been told off for not teaching their children the right way to read

Every child is different. You surely wouldn't expect a dyslexic child to be reading by 4 or one with special educational needs? I could read when I was three but not dress myself and I still struggled with shoe laces at 8. My son could write several words before he started school but he did it off memory rather than phonetically and was therefore slightly behind because the national curriculum proscribes phonemes (and tests for them FAR too early using nonsense words) rather than mixed methods. This by Michael Rosen is excellent on the dangers of the current way of teaching and the different definitions of what constitutes reading. ANY teacher telling you off for teaching a child to read "wrongly" is protecting the school's OFSTED and League Table rankings. They are NOT acting in the best interests of the child.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

When people don't like their job, or the salary etc, they can go and work for another company. But that's not so easy when they work in the public sector,

Or even that easy in the private sector.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Teachers don't get paid for their holiday, but the money is spread out through the year.

Teachers are expected to work 1,950 hours, but generally it will work out much more than that. That is more than the average office jockey who works 37.5 hours a week for 47/48 weeks.

When I was doing my PGCE, I spent 10 hours in school a day and invariably spent much of the evenings planning for the next day/week/mid term.

Most of my friends doing their NQT years are working 70 hour weeks. My class teacher does the same.

Inset days provide an opportunity for essential training. It is not an 'extra day off'.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

No sympathy here, if you don't like the job change careers. Is there a shortage of teachers and would be applicants, no. Game over.

2 out of 5 teachers leave the profession within 5 years of starting work. That is not good for schools or the profession.

 

[Creaky]

When people don't like their job, or the salary etc, they can go and work for another company. But that's not so easy when they work in the public sector, as most of the jobs are provided by the government, and the salaries are controlled. And I don't think it's fair to expect people to change careers.

But specifically re teachers: my wife wanted to do a PGCE 22 years ago, and we discussed the fact that teaching salaries were very poor, so she didn't do it. Teaching salaries now compared to back then are very good in my opinion, so I don't have much sympathy for someone that's chosen teaching as a career, knowing what the salary is like, who then complains about the salary.

But is that what this particular strike is about (I have no idea), or are they complaining about changes in working conditions (some of the administrative crap they have to do is a joke)?

Not many kids can read before they start school.

Perfectly fair argument but what if someone joins a profession based on a salary package and signs a contract to that effect and then finds that this is suddenly torn up and the level of pay is effectively reduced?

The value of the pension that will be received has been reduced from that originally agreed and the contributions to receive that reduced pension has been increased meaning a lower level of take-home pay.

Add to that the removal of the automatic pay scale increments based on experience and a two year pay freeze and suddenly it's not so clear cut as, "you agreed to the package when you started teaching so don't complain".