Teachers Strike

[Southover Street Seagull]

This by Michael Rosen is excellent on the dangers of the current way of teaching and the different definitions of what constitutes reading. ANY teacher telling you off for teaching a child to read "wrongly" is protecting the school's OFSTED and League Table rankings. They are NOT acting in the best interests of the child.

Perhaps the government, parents, teachers and unions should be looking to other teaching systems then:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21354932

From reading the BBC article it seems the Finnish system works very well and is popular with teachers:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/?all

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2013/12/why-is-the-finnish-school-system-so-good/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-no-league-tables-and-few-exams-approach.html

I've put a balance of articles in from the left and the right.

 

[Questions]

Teachers can still retire at 55 if they so wish and take what pension is due at that time. The 68 retirement age is being phased in up to 2046 I thought. An ex head I know who was earning 104k a year is pulling a wad you would not believe in his pension.
Not sure about this final salary bit linked to your pension, I'm really not.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Not many kids can read before they start school.

Every child is different. You surely wouldn't expect a dyslexic child to be reading by 4 or one with special educational needs? I could read when I was three but not dress myself and I still struggled with shoe laces at 8. My son could write several words before he started school but he did it off memory rather than phonetically and was therefore slightly behind because the national curriculum proscribes phonemes (and tests for them FAR too early using nonsense words) rather than mixed methods. This by Michael Rosen is excellent on the dangers of the current way of teaching and the different definitions of what constitutes reading. ANY teacher telling you off for teaching a child to read "wrongly" is protecting the school's OFSTED and League Table rankings. They are NOT acting in the best interests of the child.

I don't expect kids to be able to read at 4, especially not all kids, I was responding to a previous poster that said they should.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Perfectly fair argument but what if someone joins a profession based on a salary package and signs a contract to that effect and then finds that this is suddenly torn up and the level of pay is effectively reduced?

The value of the pension that will be received has been reduced from that originally agreed and the contributions to receive that reduced pension has been increased meaning a lower level of take-home pay.

Add to that the removal of the automatic pay scale increments based on experience and a two year pay freeze and suddenly it's not so clear cut as, "you agreed to the package when you started teaching so don't complain".

I'm not sure about automatic pay increments based on time because it feels like you're not necessarily rewarding good workers however I do feel all public sector workers should get an inflationary pay rise every year regardless as otherwise they're effectively getting a pay cut.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Encouraging teachers to teach to test is such a ballsed up idea.

I think this video is excellent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

[yt]zDZFcDGpL4U[/yt]

 

[Creaky]

I'm not sure about automatic pay increments based on time because it feels like you're not necessarily rewarding good workers however I do feel all public sector workers should get an inflationary pay rise every year regardless as otherwise they're effectively getting a pay cut.

Fair enough BUT if such a system was part of the agreed contract and it was later unilaterally removed then it can give rise to a dispute.

 

[Gordon the Gopher]

Loved this article but check out the shirt behind him!

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-03-25/teacher-writes-letter-to-parents-explaining-why-he-is-going-on-strike/

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

and the VERY generous pensions...........

and inset days - thats another week off

That's hardly the whole story though is it?

I have a few teacher friends, they are at the school by 7:30am and often leave after 4:30pm. They have an incredible amount of paperwork to complete, much more than any middle management position.

They also have an incredible responsibility to teach the youngsters of today who will become the future of our working society.

As for pensions, the amount tye receive back is far lower than other civil servants and they pay more money in!

The government just keeps adding to their workload and none of te friends I have ever look anything other than absolutely shattered when I see them at weekends so it is definitely quite as 'cushty' as some on here are making out!

 

[Harry H]

Teaching is no fun anymore.

 

[Triggaaar]

but what if someone joins a profession based on a salary package and signs a contract to that effect and then finds that this is suddenly torn up and the level of pay is effectively reduced?

The value of the pension that will be received has been reduced from that originally agreed and the contributions to receive that reduced pension has been increased meaning a lower level of take-home pay.

Add to that the removal of the automatic pay scale increments based on experience and a two year pay freeze and suddenly it's not so clear cut as, "you agreed to the package when you started teaching so don't complain".

I'd expect them to complain. Like I say, I don't know the details of this strike, and how just it is.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Fair enough BUT if such a system was part of the agreed contract and it was later unilaterally removed then it can give rise to a dispute.

True, my wife is facing a similar thing with being a nurse. Also as long as its replaced with some way to reward good teachers then it can only be a benefit to everyone except the poor teachers. I do understand where they are coming from but do think its strange that only 1 union was on strike.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

True, my wife is facing a similar thing with being a nurse. Also as long as its replaced with some way to reward good teachers then it can only be a benefit to everyone except the poor teachers. I do understand where they are coming from but do think its strange that only 1 union was on strike.

I think that is slightly naive.

Teaching to test will end in tears.

Creativity will be stifled.

Who is in the best position to understand how a class (every class being different) should be taught? Parliament or the teacher who knows the children?

Besides which, surely there are regional factors in how well pupils perform as well. One friend works in the finest Primary School in Chelsea and Kensington, another at Whitehawk Primary (or whatever it is called now). Who do you think will get the biggest pay package?

I work in Special Needs. If pay was linked on passing tests, I'd end up owing the state money.

 

[Seagull by the Sea]

I think that is slightly naive.

Teaching to test will end in tears.

Creativity will be stifled.

Who is in the best position to understand how a class (every class being different) should be taught? Parliament or the teacher who knows the children?

Besides which, surely there are regional factors in how well pupils perform as well. One friend works in the finest Primary School in Chelsea and Kensington, another at Whitehawk Primary (or whatever it is called now). Who do you think will get the biggest pay package?

I work in Special Needs. If pay was linked on passing tests, I'd end up owing the state money.

100% Absolutely, THIS

 

[BadFish]

I've always been a bit confused about teacher's holiday. Why do they get time off just because the kids are not there? If they went down to say five weeks holiday a year they could do all their planning and training during half terms and holidays? They then wouldn't feel so hard done by having to spend two weeks out of six in the summer at school! They would also spend all the time teaching with the kids (my Son's teacher has one half day a week out of class to plan lessons, and obviously inset days for training).

I have a two week holiday coming up at the end of next week. I fully expect to spend at least half of that catching up on jobs that I haven't found time for during term time, writing up assessment for report and hopefully scheduling a couple of meetings. I am not alone in doing this although it is mainly because I have a young family and prefer to use my holidays to catch up on work rather than put in the hours required during term time.

I am not suggesting teachers work harder than anybody else but i do challenge the notion that they are lazy and have more 'time off' than other people. It seems that a few people regard inset days as more 'time off'. I wonder if other profession's training days are viewed as days off.

I also can't help but wonder if some of the people criticising teachers for being lazy are the same people who spend their working days posting on NSC.

 

[BadFish]

Is there any evidence that the quality of teaching is directly related to the salaries paid ?

If you look at Finland who by all evidence have the best education system in the world you find that teachers are as highly paid as doctors and the like. Although they also have to have a masters so are more qualified than other teachers around the world. As a point of interest they also have more influence on how things are taught and spend more time planning lessons and less time in front of the class and have very little standardized testing (the first one is at aged 13 if memory serves).

It is a very interesting model to look at because it goes against many of the things we are told are important but the evidence shows it is incredibly successful.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

I think that is slightly naive.

Teaching to test will end in tears.

Creativity will be stifled.

Who is in the best position to understand how a class (every class being different) should be taught? Parliament or the teacher who knows the children?

Besides which, surely there are regional factors in how well pupils perform as well. One friend works in the finest Primary School in Chelsea and Kensington, another at Whitehawk Primary (or whatever it is called now). Who do you think will get the biggest pay package?

I work in Special Needs. If pay was linked on passing tests, I'd end up owing the state money.

Sorry I wasn't suggesting judging how good teachers are by tests. I think the current way of judging schools by numbers passing is wrong and that teachers that can get a "poor" student to achieve an average grade is a lot better and probably harder than get a "gifted" child a good grade. In fact there should be something to judge whether gifted children are underperforming as well as less able children getting to over perform. I don't know how these can be assessed though

I also think education secretary should be a job that is done by someone suitable with relevant qualifications such as a teacher, and should be separate from government so policies, budgets and assessments don't keep changing as one party is trying to make themselves look better.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I also can't help but wonder if some of the people criticising teachers for being lazy are the same people who spend their working days posting on NSC.[/QUOTE]

You are right to correct many of the sweeping assumptions being posted on this thread - and I support most of what you say.

However you also fall into a similar trap: there are many workers (including in the public sector) who do shift work (as well as routinely working weekends and public holidays) so may well post on NSC during the daytime. They will be going to work just as those who enjoy a more conventional 'working day' will be heading home.

 

[BadFish]

Have a read of this and you will see that various types of action have been 'suggested' by the NUT and NASUWT including the ones you mention. The problem is that rigid adherence to these would disadvantage the children and have very little public impact - so much so that it appears the majority of teachers haven't followed the union's instructions.

A one day strike will probably have less of an impact on an individual child's education but the public awareness has been infinitely greater.

http://www.teachers.org.uk/files/ActionGuidance-9117.pdf

This dispute has been going on for coming upto two years now!

is the correct answer

 

[BadFish]

Being a teacher is harder than it used to be, but isn't every job these days? To their credit teachers today are better than a generation ago.

As public sector goes they do pretty well with a final salary pension still intact, extended hols and some benefits Jonny private sector can only dream off.

Made me laugh today when I heard a striking head on the radio saying "We're only doing it for the children".....

Contrary to popular opinion this is at the forefront of all decisions that the vast majority make. Just because we are demonised by vast swathes of society that doesn't make them or their ill though out parroted assumptions correct. Maybe some of those who think teachers have it cushy should retrain, prepare to put their feet up and become teachers. My advice would be to shadow one for a few weeks (ask them first otherwise it can get uncomfortable) and have a look at what you are getting into. It is a fantastically rewarding career but this has nothing to do with the mythical short days and long holidays (including the extra week's 'inset' holidays).

 

[Spider]

I'm currently doing a PGCE, and I can honestly say it is by a long long chalk the hardest thing I've ever done. Got in at half 7 this morning, just got back and am about the start planning an a level lesson. It's really really not a cushy job. Good holidays yes, but you can't choose when you have them. Also, I can't believe there are morons who still think inset days are days off for teachers. I set days are staff training, just like many jobs will include - the fact that having kids off school inconveniences parents for 5 days a year is irrelevant unless you want staff who started 30 years ago with no further training (trust me you don't - for example, catering for students with English as an additional language was practically,a non issue then). I'm not at all a whiny person, but I can also say teaching is exhausting in a way that no other job I've done is, both physically and mentally - looking after 25 kids for an hour (some of whom rely on school as their only means so discipline because their parents can't be arsed) is not so,etching to be taken lightly.

Anyway, no point in giving a life story. As for the strike, I'm not in a position yet to be involved or have feelings on it. But I do know that fellow professionals are very concerned and made very difficult decisions about striking today - and it had absolutely nothing to do with having a day off (most of them don't get paid enough for that to be a consideration). Until we go back to a society which doesn't treat school as a state babysitting service (and it is astonishing how many parents have demonstrably little interest in their kids education) then these crap arguments as teachers striking will continue.

Oh and by the way, despite all that, it's also the most fun job I've had - so it's not all doom and gloom!