Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[Soulman]

Now that's just rude

No, it was a genuine mistake, but make of it what you will.
Ok then, you have argued every point, you seem very fixed on your opinion, fair enough.
My take on it is....... This has been boiling up, if the Rebels win i don't think the people of Syria will be any better off. The Russians have been building oil lines everywhere, and will back/supply Syria for this purpose. Israel have the Golan Heights and this will give Iran the excuse (if the West/USA get involved) to attack Israel to gain some oil, (lets face it Iran are as mad as a box of frogs) . The Federal Banks and Rothchilds and Rockerfellas will lend billions for a war....war makes money.
Meanwhile if their is British involvement, our streets will be littered with the anti mob, the erosion that is happening in our country, and the tensions will arise. Fear of reprisal etc.
Meanwhile Germany, who have only been allowed to act as a peace force since WW2, will be an even stronger economy with their non involvement, saving billions, and actually run Europe (they seem to anyway) without lifting a finger in anger.
Meanwhile, while Britain is occupied elsewhere, our own country is been slowly eroded.

 

[martyn20]

No, it was a genuine mistake, but make of it what you will.
Ok then, you have argued every point, you seem very fixed on your opinion, fair enough.
My take on it is....... This has been boiling up, if the Rebels win i don't think the people of Syria will be any better off. The Russians have been building oil lines everywhere, and will back/supply Syria for this purpose. Israel have the Golan Heights and this will give Iran the excuse (if the West/USA get involved) to attack Israel to gain some oil, (lets face it Iran are as mad as a box of frogs) . The Federal Banks and Rothchilds and Rockerfellas will lend billions for a war....war makes money.
Meanwhile if their is British involvement, our streets will be littered with the anti mob, the erosion that is happening in our country, and the tensions will arise. Fear of reprisal etc.
Meanwhile Germany, who have only been allowed to act as a peace force since WW2, will be an even stronger economy with their non involvement, saving billions, and actually run Europe (they seem to anyway) without lifting a finger in anger.
Meanwhile, while Britain is occupied elsewhere, our own country is been slowly eroded.

I still feel that the premise we are about to start an Iraq/Afghanistan style war is just not right. Only maniacs like John McCain want that, nobody else does, neither side in the US, Europe, Russia or China. If they were about to start something like that we would have seen troop movements and that's just not happening.

 

[Soulman]

In what way do they not live in the 21st century now?

Burying and stoning women in the street in front of a baying crowd. Young girls and genital mutilation. Male biased kangaroo courts with the women as second class citizens. Strapping bombs to little children to use as weapons. Using children as human shields in weapons factories. Just a few examples.
I don't expect or want them to adopt our ideas, just get rid of the 7th century backward ideology.
We were no angels, we have moved on though, sadly many in the Middle East have not. Until the people want change, it will not happen.
China is a good example, it is changing because the people have seen what they want...no wars there, just gradual change.
Perhaps if we keep out of it, they can change it themselves, but i feel with their ideology, it will take many years.

 

[Soulman]

I still feel that the premise we are about to start an Iraq/Afghanistan style war is just not right. Only maniacs like John McCain want that, nobody else does, neither side in the US, Europe, Russia or China. If they were about to start something like that we would have seen troop movements and that's just not happening.

Troops were not used in Iraq at first. Wave after wave of ariel attacks were used. The difference this time could be that Iran, Russia and a few other countries will not sit back and watch. If you really think that the USA could go in and bomb the hell out of Syria with no reprisals this time, then i think you are on dodgy ground.

 

[Soulman]

You are not wrong.

 

[martyn20]

Troops were not used in Iraq at first. Wave after wave of ariel attacks were used. The difference this time could be that Iran, Russia and a few other countries will not sit back and watch. If you really think that the USA could go in and bomb the hell out of Syria with no reprisals this time, then i think you are on dodgy ground.

It's not bombing the hell out of them though it's 1,2 or 3 days of surgical strikes aimed at a specific part of the Assad regime, there's a massive difference and in my opinion Iran would sit back, my fear is Israel would take advantage.

 

[Soulman]

It's not bombing the hell out of them though it's 1,2 or 3 days of surgical strikes aimed at a specific part of the Assad regime, there's a massive difference and in my opinion Iran would sit back, my fear is Israel would take advantage.

Can you be sure?
I think the people of Syria would really suffer. I can see it now "USA bombs schools, kills children, women, Iran etc will strike back".
Arise Muslims in the West, 7/11, bombs going off in the West etc.
The fact that the USA might target legitimate buildings, will be twisted, and the pawns will be put in place.
Pictures of injured children and women will be rife.

 

[pastafarian]

A story originally from infowars.com(yes them) shows how the Daily Mail had evidence these chemical attacks were planned,they reported it but mysteriously deleted the story from their servers and it is no longer available......the evidence of which(as claimed by infowars and others) can be seen here.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2270219/U-S-planned-launch-chemical-weapon-attack-Syria-blame-Assad
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...chemical-weapon-attack-Syria-blame-Assad.html

Great stuff,however i submitted an article about Vicente to the Daily Mail about how the size of his massive Spanish Penis was hindering his ability to resign for the Albion.They originally ran with the story but retracted it and removed it from their servers when it was discovered his cock was linked to drug trafficking out of Mexico.....see the evidence here how the government megacorps shills and the Mainstream media have hidden and buried the story

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1966/vicentecomingbacktothealbioncockisasecretdrugstash
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1966/vicentecomingbacktothealbioncockisasecretdrugstash.html


it amazes me how gullible people can be.

edit:it should maybe also pointed out it also depends which CT website one subscribes to as to which news source is relevant,most say this story was leaked by the Daily Mail......others claim it was yahoo news.......poor chaps cant even agree who made this crap up in the first place

 

[beorhthelm]

Can you be sure?
I think the people of Syria would really suffer. I can see it now "USA bombs schools, kills children, women, Iran etc will strike back".
Arise Muslims in the West, 7/11, bombs going off in the West etc.
The fact that the USA might target legitimate buildings, will be twisted, and the pawns will be put in place.
Pictures of injured children and women will be rife.

as opposed to the pictures of injured children and women being gassed/shelled/shot at already? your's has to be the worst argument against any intervention, "because it will be made to look bad" is pathetic. the people of Syria are already suffering, and US strategic strikes will not be changing much. and i include to the positive in that.

Iran striking back is just conspiracist's wet dreams, the whole point of proxy wars is you dont have to get involved directly. Russia will do the minimum to signal they dont approve (supply some weapons probably), but then US is only going to do the minimum, people still arent noticing that they really dont want to get involved, previous presidents would have acted by now. Obama is trying to get out of it with out looking like he's trying to get out of it. its all about show.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Troops were not used in Iraq at first. Wave after wave of ariel attacks were used. The difference this time could be that Iran, Russia and a few other countries will not sit back and watch. If you really think that the USA could go in and bomb the hell out of Syria with no reprisals this time, then i think you are on dodgy ground.

Sorry to pick up on this particular post for a quote but there is a lot of factual inaccuracies on this thread o want to put right.

We have never planned for, proposed or would support ground troops into Syria.

The plan has always been to use TLAM (tomahawk land attack missiles) block iv's. These cost $600k each. We do not have billions worth of them. 1 sub, possibly 24 missiles.

The most recent Iraq war /2003) did not have an extensive air campaign. On day one strategic strikes took place in Baghdad and on day two we invaded.

I agree with what martyn has posted so we are a minority of 2.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Haven't had all day to catch up with this thread but I'm starting to wish that one of the tin foil hat brigade would pop up to see me admit that I sense something "fishy" going on in this mess.

Obama has a long private walk with the head of the CIA during which he decides to put the decision on action to congress, Israel issues a deafening silence and Putin warns of potential Russian intervention on the side of Assad. There's more to this than sme Sarin and intercepted radio messages from NBC units and some dead kids.

I'm not up with my conspiracy theories but the US seems to have caught a cold, Obama looks exhausted and scared.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Troops were not used in Iraq at first. Wave after wave of arielattacks were used. The difference this time could be that Iran, Russia and a few other countries will not sit back and watch. If you really think that the USA could go in and bomb the hell out of Syria with no reprisals this time, then i think you are on dodgy ground.

Digital or analogue? Powder or powerball?

 

[Soulman]

Haven't had all day to catch up with this thread but I'm starting to wish that one of the tin foil hat brigade would pop up to see me admit that I sense something "fishy" going on in this mess.

Obama has a long private walk with the head of the CIA during which he decides to put the decision on action to congress, Israel issues a deafening silence and Putin warns of potential Russian intervention on the side of Assad. There's more to this than sme Sarin and intercepted radio messages from NBC units and some dead kids.

I'm not up with my conspiracy theories but the US seems to have caught a cold, Obama looks exhausted and scared.

Which is why imo, going in gun ho at the moment like some want, might be a mistake.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Which is why imo, going in gun ho at the moment like some want, might be a mistake.

There's a back story here. I can't put my finger on what is going on but it seems to have gained traction over the past 3 days. Obama saying today he was elected to end wars not start new ones. Complete volte face. What has Putin told him?

 

[beorhthelm]

There's a back story here. I can't put my finger on what is going on but it seems to have gained traction over the past 3 days. Obama saying today he was elected to end wars not start new ones. Complete volte face. What has Putin told him?

this is what im trying to point out, there is no real change of position. didnt get involved in the whole "arab spring" thing, relutantly got involved in Libya after France/Britain had made the early running and pushed for it, and it did tick a long term strategic goal. stayed out of Egypt, albeit what could they do? Syria has been bubbling along for couple of years, nothing. when Syrian forces shelled rebels in Turkey, which could have brought in NATO, they stood back. multiple reports of chemicial attacks have been quietly ignored, until one so large they couldnt ignore it. Israels silence is telling, because they'd much rather the Syrians fight amongst themselves than be a concern to them. Hezbollah lobbing rockets at Syrian rebels means fewer rockets being lobbed at north Israel. Russia doesnt care much except to protect its interest in their naval port (which at one point they practically evacuated iirc) and piss the americans off (same for China, no strategic interest at all). the backstory is, the US under Obama really doesnt want to get involved in all these sectarian battles across the middle east, which is basically what it boils down to.

 

[martyn20]

The Russian proposal of Syria handing over all it's chemical weapons seems to have changed everything and the President is beginning to back away from military action. Test vote in Senate is being delayed. This could be the way out for the West and Syria can get on with killing each other on their own.

 

[martyn20]

Agreement reached between US and Russia to rapidly make Syria declare their chemical weapons stock and within a reasonable period to bring them under international control. If this works it's a superb solution to resolve this dangerous situation.
Saw suggestions yesterday that the US and Russia may continue to work together to try and find a wider solution to the whole civil war, amazing team with a real chance to stop the whole thing.
Saw a lot of criticism of Obama that he could not make his mind up and was being dictated to by Russia, seems to me that unlike the previous incumbent of the Oval Office Obama decided to wait and see and decided there was nothing wrong with being flexible, if this works he has a superb result with the threat of military force still there if things go wrong, unlike the UK thanks to Mr Miliband.

 

[Soulman]

Agreement reached between US and Russia to rapidly make Syria declare their chemical weapons stock and within a reasonable period to bring them under international control. If this works it's a superb solution to resolve this dangerous situation.
Saw suggestions yesterday that the US and Russia may continue to work together to try and find a wider solution to the whole civil war, amazing team with a real chance to stop the whole thing.
Saw a lot of criticism of Obama that he could not make his mind up and was being dictated to by Russia, seems to me that unlike the previous incumbent of the Oval Office Obama decided to wait and see and decided there was nothing wrong with being flexible, if this works he has a superb result with the threat of military force still there if things go wrong, unlike the UK thanks to Mr Miliband.

Over two weeks ago, you were all for the USA etc to go in and bomb the Syrian government when many stated to wait and no knee jerk reaction. Seems waiting was the best option. As many stated, both sides are trouble.
As was also stated, the rebels who you seemed to want to back, are no angels either.
"Syrian hospitals as well as medical personnel are being deliberately targeted both by the government forces and the rebels during the ongoing violence in the country, UN investigators say. Under international law, such acts are considered war crimes."
http://rt.com/news/un-hospitals-attack-syria-834/

"Obama-lovin TIME Magazine goes off the reservation. The reporter admits in this article that it is "harder and harder to know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are." Surprising, considering what blind loyal Obambots they are at TIME. We live in hope that they might write about the slaughter of Christians by Muslims."
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...an-beheaded-by-obama-backed-jihad-rebels.html

 

[martyn20]

Over two weeks ago, you were all for the USA etc to go in and bomb the Syrian government when many stated to wait and no knee jerk reaction. Seems waiting was the best option. As many stated, both sides are trouble.
As was also stated, the rebels who you seemed to want to back, are no angels either.
"Syrian hospitals as well as medical personnel are being deliberately targeted both by the government forces and the rebels during the ongoing violence in the country, UN investigators say. Under international law, such acts are considered war crimes."
http://rt.com/news/un-hospitals-attack-syria-834/

"Obama-lovin TIME Magazine goes off the reservation. The reporter admits in this article that it is "harder and harder to know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are." Surprising, considering what blind loyal Obambots they are at TIME. We live in hope that they might write about the slaughter of Christians by Muslims."
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/...an-beheaded-by-obama-backed-jihad-rebels.html

After all that's been said including Putin's op-ed in the New York Times I never thought they would be able to come together like this, it's an amazing diplomatic turnaround. My position was always about stopping the next attack and until yesterday I thought a surgical strike was going to be the only way.
Tell me honestly did you ever see the US and Russia coming together so quickly like this?

 

[Soulman]

After all that's been said including Putin's op-ed in the New York Times I never thought they would be able to come together like this, it's an amazing diplomatic turnaround. My position was always about stopping the next attack and until yesterday I thought a surgical strike was going to be the only way.
Tell me honestly did you ever see the US and Russia coming together so quickly like this?

Of course i never thought that the US and Russia would come together. What i did think, unlike you, was that bombing the government a few weeks ago would cause real trouble, and the full facts should come out first. In effect, by bombing the Syrian government when you wanted, would have been seen as siding/supporting the Rebels, who could be as bad as the people you wanted targeted nearly 3 weeks ago.