Syncronized dies in the national

[Deleted member 18477]

Take it that's the first time you have ever watched the race then?

nah watched it for a few years now. im not that into horse racing but it is the big one after all. its got a buzz about it which i like.

i just forgot it was so many jumps thats all from last year. i suppose it is the grand daddy and the horses and jockeys should be tested but it would certainly reduce the chance of injury to the horses. dont worry im not in the camp of thinking its cruel to make horses race etc, the horses f***ing love running around clearly, otherwise they wouldnt run or jump in the first place.

always sad to hear of people/animals dying through sport though. although i suppose taking jumps out of races would be like taking corners out of f1 and tackles out of football, shit for the people doing it and the people watching it.

 

[vegster]

yes more research is definitely what is needed.

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/issues/horse_racing.php

or from personal experience: my mum bought two horses from a racing stable (they didn't make the grade). Both showed signs of being mistreated, both nervous and both had nervous ticks (wind sucking, horrifically shying away at the sight of a whip). One had to be put down as it threw my mum (a very experienced horsey person having kept horses since she was a teenager) a number of times.

I had an old schoolfriend who ended up to be a stable lad at Ryan Price's stables in Findon. he used to do the mucky stuff but often would ride out the horses on the gallops. he said that lots of the horses were either very bad, mad or psychotic due to the fact that the only considerations in breeding the horses were speed or stamina or both. He even went so far to say that some would happily try to bite you whenever they could.

 

[Phat Baz 68]

BAN IT !!! I do have a flutter on the National but never again after today, it is cruel and dangerous and i do actually feel bad about backing horses in it. So descision made NEVER AGAIN !!

 

[clapham_gull]

So you believe that people watch horse racing just waiting to see horse a get put down?

Obviously not, but back to the subject "The National" (however hard you try to deviate) they can't really love horses can they ?, not on the basis of the routine deaths.

No that would be hypocritical.

 

[BadFish]

Obviously not, but back to the subject "The National" (however hard you try to deviate) they can't really love horses can they ?, not on the basis of the routine deaths.

No that would be hypocritical.

or by the way they treat them while being trained, raced and/or discarded.

 

[clapham_gull]

It reminds of the defence that the fox hunting chaps made when the ban was being discussed. They screamed that thousands of dogs would need to be down.

They routinely destroy on a routine basis at half of their natural lifespan. Can't remember the exact figure - but it runs to tens of thousands a year.

Now, I couldn't give a toss about foxes and I couldn't give a toss about horses. But what does annoy me is the "hypocrisy" accusation coming from people people who engage in sports involving the death of animals towards meat eaters. That's like me having a little cry before taking another bit of a burger.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Without jumps racing the need for horses would diminish further and you'd have to cull thousands upon thousands of horses anyway. Either way you'll end up with dead horses.

 

[clapham_gull]

Without jumps racing the need for horses would diminish further and you'd have to cull thousands upon thousands of horses anyway. Either way you'll end up with dead horses.

.. sounds familiar.

 

[BadFish]

Without jumps racing the need for horses would diminish further and you'd have to cull thousands upon thousands of horses anyway. Either way you'll end up with dead horses.

There would also be a lot fewer horses bred, which means there would be less to cull. which would mean less dead horses. (after the initial cull obviously).

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Any use of a horse potentially can lead to their death. From pulling carts to local pony clubs for kids to equestrian events, to polo to running around in a paddock.

More horses die from accidents in their own paddocks than die from jumps racing.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

There would also be a lot fewer horses bred, which means there would be less to cull. which would mean less dead horses. (after the initial cull obviously).

And higher unemployment.

 

[BadFish]

Any use of a horse potentially can lead to their death. From pulling carts to local pony clubs for kids to equestrian events, to polo to running around in a paddock.

More horses die from accidents in their own paddocks than die from jumps racing.

really? do you have any proof of this? any more depth to this statement?

 

[clapham_gull]

And higher unemployment.

.. sounds familiar too. Same arguments trotted out before the hunting ban. The argument soon moves away from the animals towards the people involved.

At least that's more honest. Horse racing is a human activity loved and enjoyed by humans. It has little to do with the love of animals.

 

[BadFish]

And higher unemployment.

So we should keep a barbaric sport because it keeps people employed?

Maybe we should bring back gladiators, bear baiting and cock fights as they would all provide gainful employment.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

really? do you have any proof of this? any more depth to this statement?

I follow horse racing here. You'd be surprised at how many horses are put down from injuries sustained while not racing. here's a few examples. Even an equestrian one.

Echo Of Light put down after paddock accident | the-racehorse.com

Martino Alonso put down following paddock accident | the-racehorse.com

Horse Breeding - Rhythm Put Down After Paddock Accident

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2010/01/134.shtml

http://www.perthturftalk.com/news.php?id=2439

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So we should keep a barbaric sport because it keeps people employed?

Maybe we should bring back gladiators, bear baiting and cock fights as they would all provide gainful employment.

It's not actually barbaric. If it was barbaric the horses wouldn't be schooled, trained, fed.

Plenty of horses are schooled for jumps racing and fail. Those lucky sods get to be sent off to the knackery.

Does this call for banning jumps also extend to children's pony clubs who also jump horses?

 

[BadFish]

I follow horse racing here. You'd be surprised at how many horses are put down from injuries sustained while not racing. here's a few examples. Even an equestrian one.

Echo Of Light put down after paddock accident | the-racehorse.com

Martino Alonso put down following paddock accident | the-racehorse.com

Horse Breeding - Rhythm Put Down After Paddock Accident

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2010/01/134.shtml

http://www.perthturftalk.com/news.php?id=2439

None of these links prove your statement.

Some of these accidents could easily be because of injuries sustained during training or racing or as a result of ongoing mistreatment at the hands of their owners.

 

[BadFish]

It's not actually barbaric. If it was barbaric the horses wouldn't be schooled, trained, fed.

Plenty of horses are schooled for jumps racing and fail. Those lucky sods get to be sent off to the knackery.

Does this call for banning jumps also extend to children's pony clubs who also jump horses?

'Fed'

Physical Suffering

The feeding of high concentrate diets (grains) fed during training rather than extended grazing, leads to gastric ulcers - a study of race horses at Randwick (NSW) found that 89% had stomach ulcers, and many of the horses had deep, bleeding ulcers within 8 weeks of the commencement of their training (Newby J, "Welfare issues raised by racehorse ulcer study", The Veterinarian, March 2000).

Muscular-skeletal injuries and lameness cause considerable suffering to horses in training of all ages.

'Trained'

Internal Race Injuries

The exertion of the races leads a large proportion of horses to bleed into their lungs and windpipe (Exercise-Induced Pulmonary Haemorrhage). This has only been fully realized in recent years when endoscopes have been used to carry out internal examinations via the throat. A study carried out by the University of Melbourne found that a massive 50% of horses had blood in the windpipe, and 90% has blood deeper in the lungs.

Or the 'lucky sods'

Wastage’—
the Terrible Term Used for the Routine Discarding of Racing Horses

You can count on one or two hands, the Melbourne cup winners that now graze on beautiful paddocks in their retirement. The vast majority of thoroughbreds (flat and jumps racers) and standardbred (harness racers) horses fail to run fast enough or become injured and are just discarded by the racing industry.

A study conducted by researchers at the University of Sydney [‘Epidemiology of horses leaving the Thoroughbred and Standardbred racing industries, by Hayek AR, Jones B, Evans DL, Thomson PC and McGreevy PD - Proceedings of the 1st International Equitation Science Symposium August 2005] attempted to track ex-racing horses. Similar to other studies they found almost 40% of race horses leave the industry each year due to poor performance, illness or injury or behavioural or other problems.
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Where Do They Go?

Many failed or older racehorses will be destined for slaughter, and may go to local knackeries (used for pet meat for example) or be purchased for slaughter at the two horse abattoirs in Australia (Peterborough in SA and Caboolture in QLD). Approximately 2,000 tonnes of horse meat is exported for human consumption in Japan and Europe annually (ABS figures). Over 25,000 horses per year are killed in this way in Australia.

The long distance transport of horses (for human consumption) is not well monitored or regulated. Travel is usually stressful for horses, and research shows that even travel of 6 hours causes suppression of the immune system (an indicator of welfare problems) - horses may be transported for several days to the export slaughterhouses.

[Discarded Horses] Some horses considered unwanted (‘wastage’) by the racing industry will go for riding, eventing or other uses, but the majority will not be wanted and are likely to be sent for slaughter, either directly, through auctions or ‘eventually’ when other uses fail or are completed.

It is difficult to estimate the portion of those horses slaughtered that are from the racing industries. However, given the large number of foals born for racing each year (17,000+ Thoroughbred, and 9,000+ Standardbred), the high attrition rate in the industry, and the constancy of the number of horses in the racing and breeding sectors of the industry, that portion is likely to be significant. A study by Doughty (2008) found that 52.9% of horses studied at one Australian export abattoir carried brands indicating they were of racing origin and a further portion fitted the breed specifications for racing horses, but had no brand (i.e. perhaps discarded before being registered to race). [Ref. Access to the Doughty (2008) and Hayek (2005) studies at http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-is-horse-wastage-in-the-racehorse-industry_235.html]
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[HawkTheSeagull]

My sister is a horse rider and it is her dream to win the Grand National. As i know the people at the stables she goes so, ive asked things like this to them before. You can tell if a Horse is happy or not as its ears will be pricked up, and id say that all the horses had that today as they know what they are going to do.

Also, a Horse DOES have a choice, if it does not want to jump a fence - IT WILL NOT JUMP THAT FENCE. My sister has fell of plenty of Horses who have refused to jump a fence and the jockey will be able to tell if the Horse is happy or not by the way it acts (not quite sure how but ill take their word for it), if the Jockey isnt happy, then they will pull up and withdraw from the race, the safety of the Horse and jockey are the main priorities.

Also, stop scaremongering people with the "the Horse will be put down and its meat will be exported to other countries" comment - this does not happen in this country at least and it never will do.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

None of these links prove your statement.

Some of these accidents could easily be because of injuries sustained during training or racing or as a result of ongoing mistreatment at the hands of their owners.

Really?

Me thinks you don't know a lot about horses other than what you read on those stupid biased sites.

Thoroughbreds are always going to be more prone to injuries no matter where they are because they are finer in build and overall more skittish in nature than a standard bred horse.

Combine this with their higher speeds and it's only natural they will be far more prone to paddock accidents than standard bred horses.

The incidence of thoroughbred racing horses dying in paddocks compared to harness racing standard breds is significantly higher.

To simply push the blame onto something or someone else to dismiss examples of a common occurrence is lazy.