[Brighton] Sussex Police

[Guy Fawkes]

"I'm not a response unit unfortunately"
"Yeah but you go round, the sight of the car will make them scatter"
"Yeah, but then I have to deal with it..."

What, in the name of flying FRIG, is that all about then ? Straight from the school of Officer Wiggum.

Yeah alright. You just sit there and have another donut then mate.

Couldn't find particular the video i was trying to post in response to this, which i'd seen recently, (possibly on this site?) where 4 Police officers were trying to make arrests at a bus stop were being hit by, and disrupted by, multiple onlookers who were trying to prevent them from doing their lawful duty.

The link i have found shows a different example with 2 Police officers being struck by members of the public whilst trying to arrest someone.

Two police officers kicked and heckled by crowd as they arrest suspect in McDonald's

In footage of the incident, a police officer is seen aiming a Taser at a suspect as he tries to arrest a man on the floor.

news.sky.com

Those in the video are trained, kitted out Police officers, working with a colleague, whereas the incident you are referring to involved possibly a lone working PCSO, who, in Sussex at least, (Not sure if that has since changed) has no power to arrest. (not sure if they have basic equipment like batons and incapacitant spray or handcuffs)

Yet this story is about a PCSO (civilian role, or again used to be but not sure if that has changed) not going in alone into a dangerous situation, during a period of time in society where some members of the public are willingly prepared to openly attack real Police officers doing their job, even though they are being filmed whilst carrying out that attack on a Police Officer

Is it any real surprise then that the PCSO didn't attend until real Police Officers had arrived on scene first (when the PCSO then did attend) and i'd imagine he was just following the instruction / training they had received for their job role and not acting as a response officer

 

[The Clamp]

How do you know it was a PCSO? Just makes it ITV’s word against The Guardian doesn’t it?

PCSO should not be in a marked car if they have no powers. They’d be equally ineffective in a chase of a TWOCed car or stopping someone who was drunk getting behind the wheel.

BBC also reporting it as a PCSO.

See my previous post. No idea what they were doing in a squad car.

 

[The Clamp]

Yes it does.

He must always be on a break when I go there then.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

He must always be on a break when I go there then.

Wonder if they are anything like the security guard we had when i worked at Woolworths many years ago (brought in especially for a few weeks to the smaller store i was at at the time) when we had 3 individuals enter the store together and looking to steal from us

The security guard saw what they were up to and decided to leave the shop floor and head upstairs, leaving just myself as the only member of staff left downstairs on the shop floor, trying to guard against their attempts to distract me so i look in the other direction as the others reach over behind the entertainments counter and try to steal the more valuable items kept back there, like video games, CDs, etc.... (think they got away with a mobile phone - they were stopped by the Police away from the store, but as we couldn't prove the phone they had on them was from our store (we had no record of any unique numbers associated with the phone like the IEMI or phone number or CCTV) so they got away with it and i believe they got to keep the phone)

 

[BevBHA]

Does it? I’ve never seen one there.
Seems like they need to get one who knows what he’s doing and isn’t afraid to get hands on.

As someone who manages in food retail, Co-Op only employ security between 3pm - closing in stores they feel requires it. This includes lewes road and london road stores!

 

[Stat Brother]

Couldn't find particular the video i was trying to post in response to this, which i'd seen recently, (possibly on this site?) where 4 Police officers were trying to make arrests at a bus stop were being hit by, and disrupted by, multiple onlookers who were trying to prevent them from doing their lawful duty.

The link i have found shows a different example with 2 Police officers being struck by members of the public whilst trying to arrest someone.

Two police officers kicked and heckled by crowd as they arrest suspect in McDonald's

In footage of the incident, a police officer is seen aiming a Taser at a suspect as he tries to arrest a man on the floor.

news.sky.com

Those in the video are trained, kitted out Police officers, working with a colleague, whereas the incident you are referring to involved possibly a lone working PCSO, who, in Sussex at least, (Not sure if that has since changed) has no power to arrest. (not sure if they have basic equipment like batons and incapacitant spray or handcuffs)

Yet this story is about a PCSO (civilian role, or again used to be but not sure if that has changed) not going in alone into a dangerous situation, during a period of time in society where some members of the public are willingly prepared to openly attack real Police officers doing their job, even though they are being filmed whilst carrying out that attack on a Police Officer

Is it any real surprise then that the PCSO didn't attend until real Police Officers had arrived on scene first (when the PCSO then did attend) and i'd imagine he was just following the instruction / training they had received for their job role and not acting as a response officer

I absolutely 100% agree, so why was this civilian sat in a police car dressed as a policeman?

Someone ought to arrest them for impersonating an officer.

 

[The Clamp]

He should have simply said;


“I’m waiting for back up”


It’s not so much that what he did was wrong but that he was unable to explain it to the public.

In my experience, PCSO’s are made up of a very wide range of competency levels.

 

[Happy Exile]

[snip]

Those in the video are trained, kitted out Police officers, working with a colleague, whereas the incident you are referring to involved possibly a lone working PCSO, who, in Sussex at least, (Not sure if that has since changed) has no power to arrest. (not sure if they have basic equipment like batons and incapacitant spray or handcuffs)

[/snip]

Yep. According the Guardian "Under law, PCSOs do not have powers of arrest, but are allowed to detain a person whom they believe has committed an offence but fails to provide a name and address, for up to 30 minutes until the arrival of a police officer.

They may also use “reasonable force to prevent a detained person making off”."

 

[HHGull]

Yep. According the Guardian "Under law, PCSOs do not have powers of arrest, but are allowed to detain a person whom they believe has committed an offence but fails to provide a name and address, for up to 30 minutes until the arrival of a police officer.

They may also use “reasonable force to prevent a detained person making off”

.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I absolutely 100% agree, so why was this civilian sat in a police car dressed as a policeman?

Someone ought to arrest them for impersonating an officer.

https://www.leics.police.uk/police-forces/leicestershire-police/areas/leicestershire-force-content/careers/join-us/police-staff-roles/police-community-support-officer-pcso/pcso-police-community-support-officer/pcso-police-community-support-officer/#:~:text=Just%20some%20of%20the%20tasks,litter%20and%20missing%20persons%20enquiries

All valuable community services as I’m sure you would agree.

 

[phoenix]

He must always be on a break when I go there then.

Perhaps we go there at different times and he's not there when you go. He often has a break on the bench outside when the weather is nice. My youngest works there so i pop in quite a lot.

 

[Stat Brother]

https://www.leics.police.uk/police-forces/leicestershire-police/areas/leicestershire-force-content/careers/join-us/police-staff-roles/police-community-support-officer-pcso/pcso-police-community-support-officer/pcso-police-community-support-officer/#:~:text=Just%20some%20of%20the%20tasks,litter%20and%20missing%20persons%20enquiries

All valuable community services as I’m sure you would agree.

But that has absolutely no relevance to the question asked.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

But that has absolutely no relevance to the question asked.

That’s because it was a bit of a daft question. PCSOs wear a uniform that makes them recognizable as police staff but distinct from police officers. Hardly impersonating a police officer. This whole thing with the video comes across as a set up.

 

[Stat Brother]

That’s because it was a bit of a daft question. PCSOs wear a uniform that makes them recognizable as police staff but distinct from police officers. Hardly impersonating a police officer. This whole thing with the video comes across as a set up.

While sitting alone in a police car.

Having Community Support Officer written on your back while pressed against the seat of a police car doesnt really help with identification.

If the assailants were 15 year old girls I wouldn't have gone either.
I wouldn't have gone if I were a police officer - they are the meanest.

I don't have a problem with Support Officers.
But quite clearly they shouldn't be sat alone in a police car.

'if it quacks like a duck...'.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

While sitting alone in a police car.

Having Community Support Officer written on your back while pressed against the seat of a police car doesnt really help with identification.

If the assailants were 15 year old girls I wouldn't have gone either.
I wouldn't have gone if I were a police officer - they are the meanest.

I don't have a problem with Support Officers.
But quite clearly they shouldn't be sat alone in a police car.

'if it quacks like a duck...'.

I agree the sitting alone in a police car bit is still unexplained.

 

[HHGull]

I agree the sitting alone in a police car bit is still unexplained.

Not sure what is unexplained? It’s a member of staff using a vehicle to drive to an appointment or area to patrol?

 

[carlzeiss]

Couldn't find particular the video i was trying to post in response to this, which i'd seen recently, (possibly on this site?) where 4 Police officers were trying to make arrests at a bus stop were being hit by, and disrupted by, multiple onlookers who were trying to prevent them from doing their lawful duty.

The link i have found shows a different example with 2 Police officers being struck by members of the public whilst trying to arrest someone.

Two police officers kicked and heckled by crowd as they arrest suspect in McDonald's

In footage of the incident, a police officer is seen aiming a Taser at a suspect as he tries to arrest a man on the floor.

news.sky.com

Those in the video are trained, kitted out Police officers, working with a colleague, whereas the incident you are referring to involved possibly a lone working PCSO, who, in Sussex at least, (Not sure if that has since changed) has no power to arrest. (not sure if they have basic equipment like batons and incapacitant spray or handcuffs)

Yet this story is about a PCSO (civilian role, or again used to be but not sure if that has changed) not going in alone into a dangerous situation, during a period of time in society where some members of the public are willingly prepared to openly attack real Police officers doing their job, even though they are being filmed whilst carrying out that attack on a Police Officer

Is it any real surprise then that the PCSO didn't attend until real Police Officers had arrived on scene first (when the PCSO then did attend) and i'd imagine he was just following the instruction / training they had received for their job role and not acting as a response officer

I wouldn't go anywhere near a Mcdonalds' in London if you paid me but didn't hesitate to step in when a chap with his elderly mother was being assaulted in Wothing town center a few years ago . Fortunately it worked out well for me although the resulting court case was a farce . This PCSO fellow ( from Worthing ) though must be having regrets now his name is being made public .

Pictured: PCSO who didn't help as woman 'attacked by teen shoplifter'

EXCLUSIVE: Police Community Support Officer Stewart Metcalfe (pictured), 58, did not investigate an alleged assault outside a Co-op in West Sussex as he did not want to 'deal with it'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[virtual22]

I think the phrase the officer used in the car was unfortunate in that he said he'd have to deal with it where as what Clamp said, waiting for back up would have been more appropriate.

I think there is quite a bit of lack of understanding what a PCSO does and their role. They do a lot of the more basic roles of policing such as guarding a crime scene, helping close roads when there is an accident, looking for missing persons, dealing with reports of anti social behaviour, liaising with local businessiness, being a point of contact for the local community and being seen out and about.

Now it's valid to argue this should all be done by police officers but there are two main issues here I believe, 1. there isn't enough police to deal with the more serious crimes let alone these; 2. you now need a degree level qualification to be a police constantable. Speaking with people in the force (I know a few) they have said that many people join to train on the job but find it too much to do the job and coursework so quit. Also, a lot of PCSO's who would like to step up to the role of PC again find the work load too much and don't. I'm not really convinced you need to be degree level qualified to be a PC, especially if you have been, for example, working as a PCSO for many years.

At the end of the day, it's like many things in this country, there is massive under investment as our tax money just seems to dissappear, I wonder where it all goes:

"The amount of fraud in government expenditure that was reported in the accounts audited by the NAO rose from £5.5 billion total in the two years before the pandemic (2018-19 and 2019-20) to £21 billion in total in the following two years. Of the £21 billion, £7.3 billion relates to temporary COVID-19 schemes. 1 These estimates are in addition to an estimated around £10 billion of tax revenue lost to evasion and crime every year."

Tackling fraud and corruption against government - National Audit Office (NAO) press release

Most public bodies do not know how much fraud they face and cannot demonstrate that they have the correct level of counter fraud resources, according to the National Audit Office.

www.nao.org.uk

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Not sure what is unexplained? It’s a member of staff using a vehicle to drive to an appointment or area to patrol?

Fair enough. Overall I think this video is a set up. Seems very convenient to be filming, almost as though they knew the PCSO was not able to attend the incident.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Yep. According the Guardian "Under law, PCSOs do not have powers of arrest, but are allowed to detain a person whom they believe has committed an offence but fails to provide a name and address, for up to 30 minutes until the arrival of a police officer.

They may also use “reasonable force to prevent a detained person making off”."

We all have the power of arrest.
https://www.claims.co.uk/knowledge-... states:,are committing an indictable offence.

It is so complicated though many forces do not want the PCSO's to exercise what is a right of all of us.