Supreme Court

[Blue Valkyrie]

No I am not. I am a Remainer but accept the result of the referendum. If it is going to be done, it needs to be done properly.

The thing I feel most strongly about at the moment is all the cr@p that has been directed at the Supreme Court Judges by the Daily Mail and others, which goes against very strong views on the independent judiciary. They are doing their job, which is to be experts on the law.

To be fair it's been established that we've had enough of experts.

 

[Tarpon]

The Judges are not there to be in touch or out of touch. It is a decision that needs to be made because although the people have spoken, this is about whether the Government or Parliament makes the decision as to when to invoke Article 50. The Supreme Court Judges are there because they know about the law! They are not there to decide whether article 50 is invoked, their sole task, as I understand it, is to decide who invokes it, in order to make sure it is all done right according to British law (Sovereignty!!!!)

Sadly this thread demonstrates that it does not matter how many times and ways these simple points are made they simply do not resonate with some. Save your breath and keyboard.

 

[McTavish]

BS......here is another viewpoint.

The law on invoking Article 50

Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union was inserted into that Treaty by the 2007 Lisbon Treaty...In conclusion , the power in law to give a notification under Article 50 is a prerogative power of the Crown which may be exercised by the government without the need for Parliamentary consent or approval.

I have read this and must congratulate you on the depth of your knowledge of the subject. From what you have written it seems very clear that the Supreme Court will have no option but find in favour of the Government so it hardly seems worth the lawyers turning up!

However, although I don't have your expertise, do you think it is possible that just because something is not specifically included it is necessarily excluded despite not being explicitly excluded? Also, do you think that in an ideal world it would be better, in a parliamentary democracy that the power of parliament be generally increased compared to the royal perogative?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

To be fair it's been established that we've had enough of experts.

Not as far as I am concerned. That's for morons like Michael Gove.

But there are experts and experts............

 

[Wardy's twin]

why have the other 600 odd MPs not resigned then? they all mass debated this pathetic shambles that's happening and passed an ACT (law?) or are they waiting for another vote to BOOT them out..

It was his decision to bring it to the fore not Parliament.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

It was his decision to bring it to the fore not Parliament.

well at least his exit was prompt,shame we (well myself) cannot say the same about Brexit.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

well at least his exit was prompt,shame we (well myself) cannot say the same about Brexit.

But it never was going to be easy, you are unravelling 43 years of marriage.

 

[Mental Lental]

Gotta love the irony of these stupid dinlows who voted leave due to reasons of parliamentary sovereignty protesting against the correct and due process of parliament.

You couldn't make it up. Really.

 

[happypig]

If Theresa May had unilaterally said, on becoming PM, we're not going to invoke article 50 unless we get rid of free movement, retain access to the single market and pay nothing in, it would have effectively scuppered the Brexit vote and the "will of the people"[(c) Daily Mail].
In this situation I would imagine some of the more dimwitted on this thread would be calling for the Supreme Court to rule that she hadn't the authority.

 

[GT49er]

If Theresa May had unilaterally said, on becoming PM, we're not going to invoke article 50 unless we get rid of free movement, retain access to the single market and pay nothing in, it would have effectively scuppered the Brexit vote and the "will of the people"[(c) Daily Mail].
In this situation I would imagine some of the more dimwitted on this thread would be calling for the Supreme Court t o rule that she hadn't the authority.

The High Court ruled that the Government couldn't trigger Article 50 on its own, without Parliamentary approval. The Government has launched an appeal in the Supreme Court against that ruling. Now that Parliament HAS approved (albeit reluctantly) triggering Article 50 early next year, the Supreme Court's pontifications on the matter have become rather academic.

Nice touch that you're still considering those who disagree with you as dim-witted, though. Adds a certain weight and gravitas to your posts, eh?

 

[happypig]

Nice touch that you're still considering those who disagree with you as dim-witted, though. Adds a certain weight and gravitas to your posts, eh?

Thank you, I thought so. Shades of Oscar Wilde perhaps...

 

[knocky1]

....using the term dim witted is a lot easier than explaining judiciary points ad nauseum to those without a clue.

 

[neilbard]

This.
17.4m voted to leave, 16.1 voted to remain. 13m did not vote. 14m were not eligible to vote.
Parliament must take account of those who did not or could not vote.

Why?

 

[happypig]

Why?

Because Parliament is elected to represent all the people, not just those who vote.

 

[Soulman]

Because Parliament is elected to represent all the people, not just those who vote.

So do we just take a stab at how the 13M who did not/could not be bothered would have voted, when representing all the people.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Edited

 

[JCL666]

Why?

So do we just take a stab at how the 13M who did not/could not be bothered would have voted, when representing all the people.

TBH it's not just the people who didn't vote. In a democracy like ours Parliament is there to represent everyone.

Everyone means those who voted to leave, those who voted to remain, those who were eligible but didn't to vote and those who were not able to vote.

 

[happypig]

So do we just take a stab at how the 13M who did not/could not be bothered would have voted, when representing all the people.

Of course not. Parliament should debate and come to a decision. They must, of course, take note of the referendum result but they also have a duty to those who didn't vote (whether they were eligible or not).
For what it's worth, I voted remain but, due to the referendum result, I think we have to leave; what I don't understand is why some people are in such a rush to get out as soon as possible rather than try and get an agreement with the EU before we do.

 

[Del Fenner]

the Supreme Court's pontifications on the matter have become rather academic.

Hardly, this is one single issue. If not clarified by the Supreme Court, future governments may feel that they have the power to act unilaterally in situations where the rights of all British people are affected.

 

[Blue3]

The referendum was an exercise to guage public opinion to find out if we as a nation wanted to remain in the EU or leave the EU

As we all know the result was to leave the EU

What we were not asked was what sort of post Brexit world did we want and to be fair I am not sure how that could have been asked as part of a referendum

So as it stands post Brexit is being decided by a very small band of mostly pro Brexit politicians in the cabinet with little or no democratic scrutiny

The supream court will decide if the government alone that can trigger article 50 or is its for parliament to discuss and then enact the outcome

As such we all await the decision of the 11 judges

For what it's worth having listened to the cases put forward to the Supreme Court It sounds that the governments arguments are the weaker.

I think the judges will uphold the high court decision forcing the government to publish for discussion but not a vote some Brexit plans, this will be unacceptable to the SNP, LibDems, most of Labour and some Tories.

The government will then say it has been forced into a general election against the will of the people

We will then be given a number of Brexit choices via various election manifestos