Supreme Court

[Herr Tubthumper]

The referendum was an exercise to guage public opinion to find out if we as a nation wanted to remain in the EU or leave the EU

As we all know the result was to leave the EU

What we were not asked was what sort of post Brexit world Did we want and to be fair I am not sure how that could have been asked as part of a referendum

So as it stands post Brexit is being decided by a very small band of mostly pro Brexit politicians in the cabinet little or no democratic scrutiny

The supream court will decide if the government alone that can trigger article 50 or is its for parliament to discuss and then enact the outcome

As such we all await the decision of the 11 judges

For what it's worth having listened to the cases put forward to the Supreme Court so far I think the governments arguments weaker I think the judges will uphold the high court decision forcing the government to publish for discussion but not a vote some Brexit plans, this will be unacceptable to the SNP, the LibDems, most of Labour and some Tories.

The government will then say it has been forced into a general election against the will of the people

the nation will be given a number of Brexit choices via various election manifestos

I agree. But put simply the referendum was to seek the nation's guidance. And it is parliament, i.e. our elected MPs, which acts on such guidance. This is how the UK operates and how it has operated for centuries. It really really is this simple.

I would be very suspicious of the motives of anyone who attempted to circumvent this.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Gotta love the irony of these stupid dinlows who voted leave due to reasons of parliamentary sovereignty protesting against the correct and due process of parliament.

You couldn't make it up. Really.

There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.

I think the original was "blind" and "see", but this works as well.

 

[Brighton Mod]

Because Parliament is elected to represent all the people, not just those who vote.

MPs represent their parties and are told in a majority of cases how to vote, they do not represent the voters, this was clearly demonstrated in the referendum on the EU. Parliamentary democracy is not democracy, if each constituency had a vote on each act in Parliament through their MP, this would be democracy.

 

[neilbard]

Because Parliament is elected to represent all the people, not just those who vote.

Agreed but what you then find is people who didn't vote because they couldn't be bothered are the people who moan the most about the outcome.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

MPs represent their parties and are told in a majority of cases how to vote, they do not represent the voters, this was clearly demonstrated in the referendum on the EU. Parliamentary democracy is not democracy, if each constituency had a vote on each act in Parliament through their MP, this would be democracy.

Maybe represent is the wrong word, but MP's are there for all their constituents, whether they voted for them or not. So if Caroline Lucas is visited by a BNP member with a justifiable complaint, she takes it up regardless.

If not, she is failing in her duty.

 

[Soulman]

Of course not. Parliament should debate and come to a decision. They must, of course, take note of the referendum result but they also have a duty to those who didn't vote (whether they were eligible or not).
For what it's worth, I voted remain but, due to the referendum result, I think we have to leave; what I don't understand is why some people are in such a rush to get out as soon as possible rather than try and get an agreement with the EU before we do.

Business leaders pro Remain and pro Brexit have both said that delaying is affecting trade.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Why did not the Referendum Act of 2015 specify what would happen the event of a vote to leave?
If that had happened and had gone through Parliament, there would no argument now. Seems to me to be a lack of forward thinking for future possibilities...

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.

I think the original was "blind" and "see", but this works as well.

Yes.

No matter how many times the point is made some cannot accept that this court case is nothing to do with stopping brexit.

It seems that there is a new 'Project Fear' coming from somewhere [emoji38]ol:

 

[beorhthelm]

... what I don't understand is why some people are in such a rush to get out as soon as possible rather than try and get an agreement with the EU before we do.

the agreement is sought with the EU, who will not enter into negotiation until Article 50 is invoked. its not a case of people rushing, the EU wont talk about it until its "official".

I agree. But put simply the referendum was to seek the nation's guidance. And it is parliament, i.e. our elected MPs, which acts on such guidance. This is how the UK operates and how it has operated for centuries. It really really is this simple.

I would be very suspicious of the motives of anyone who attempted to circumvent this.

the government hasnt tried to circumvent anything. they believe the PM has the authority to invoke Article 50, it remains to be seen if the law agrees or not (i reckon they'll find against). they had always intended to go to parliament for a bill to repeal european legislation (they would have to), the only debate is over authority to initiate the process of leaving with the EU.

 

[JCL666]

MPs represent their parties and are told in a majority of cases how to vote, they do not represent the voters, this was clearly demonstrated in the referendum on the EU. Parliamentary democracy is not democracy, if each constituency had a vote on each act in Parliament through their MP, this would be democracy.

Not really, what you're suggesting is your idea of what would be democratic.

You seem to be conflating party politics with representative democracy and then comparing it to a direct democracy.

There are lots of variations of democracy. Parliamentary democracy is one of them.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the government hasnt tried to circumvent anything. they believe the PM has the authority to invoke Article 50, it remains to be seen if the law agrees or not (i reckon they'll find against). they had always intended to go to parliament for a bill to repeal european legislation (they would have to), the only debate is over authority to initiate the process of leaving with the EU.

Seems it's pretty clear to everyone except May that an advisory referendum does not present the PM with unmitigated power.

 

[beorhthelm]

Seems it's pretty clear to everyone except May that an advisory referendum does not present the PM with unmitigated power.

and it seems clear many are willfully misrepresenting the situation. the reason we've having a court case is because its not explicit either way whether the PM has the authority or not to write a letter.

 

[fat old seagull]

Why did not the Referendum Act of 2015 specify what would happen the event of a vote to leave?
If that had happened and had gone through Parliament, there would no argument now. Seems to me to be a lack of forward thinking for future possibilities...

Because the Prime Minister of the day, couldn't in a million years believe that 'Leave' would win. The consequences of which are becoming apparent now. Clearly Brexit (whichever camp you're in) has turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. Simply because we were unprepared for it. Basically no one thought it through. It so much reminds me of the 6 P's which were drilled into me as a young soldier. Perfect Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance ...in any walk of life.
The only smart thing David Cameron did as PM ...realise how much shiz we were in, and ran away.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Clearly Brexit (whichever camp you're in) has turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. Simply because we were unprepared for it.

Venturing back onto this thread today when sober, unlike last evening, I agree we were totally unprepared for Brexit, but we need to give it a bit more time to say whether it was an unmitigated disaster.

 

[happypig]

Agreed but what you then find is people who didn't vote because they couldn't be bothered are the people who moan the most about the outcome.

How do you know whether people who are moaning did or didn't vote ? You've made that bit up.

 

[East Preston Gull]

Because the Prime Minister of the day, couldn't in a million years believe that 'Leave' would win. The consequences of which are becoming apparent now. Clearly Brexit (whichever camp you're in) has turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. Simply because we were unprepared for it. Basically no one thought it through. It so much reminds me of the 6 P's which were drilled into me as a young soldier. Perfect Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance ...in any walk of life.
The only smart thing David Cameron did as PM ...realise how much shiz we were in, and ran away.

Brexit is in no way a disaster. Nothing has happened. We are leaving the EU. The EU has set it's rules and we don't want to be part of it. There is nothing else to discuss. No Single Market, No freedom of movement.

Goods will still be imported and exported. Germany will not allow a tariff on its goods to be imposed for the UK market.

The EU is becoming too powerful and is now taking its member countries to court for various reasons and has just opened its 8th commission building at a cost of 320 million Euros, yes another one.

The EU is finished and all we have to do is invoke article 50 now and take the lead instead of letting these mafia federalists dictate. We can offer the EU a free trade deal and see if they want to play. We are not falling out with any countries but are at war with an unelected commission of dons and loan sharks.

We have made the leap and will have to put up with our windows being smashed and threats for a while but the rest of our European brothers will follow when they see us enjoying our freedom.



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[Theatre of Trees]

Brexit is in no way a disaster. Nothing has happened. We are leaving the EU. The EU has set it's rules and we don't want to be part of it. There is nothing else to discuss. No Single Market, No freedom of movement.

We voted to get a divorce, we did not vote for what the settlement might be, nothing about single markets or freedom of movement was mentioned on the voting slip.

Taken from:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/638210/EU-referendum-ballot-paper-Brexit-vote-June-23

 

[East Preston Gull]

We voted to get a divorce, we did not vote for what the settlement might be, nothing about single markets or freedom of movement was mentioned on the voting slip.

Taken from:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/638210/EU-referendum-ballot-paper-Brexit-vote-June-23

I voted to leave the club. The club has its rules and I still wanted to leave.

When I left my rugby club I gave up my discount ale and food vouchers and discount facility for 6 nations tickets.
I did not ask to keep my privileges because they were part of the club package. I got over it ☺

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[Del Fenner]

I voted to leave the club. The club has its rules and I still wanted to leave.

When I left my rugby club I gave up my discount ale and food vouchers and discount facility for 6 nations tickets.
I did not ask to keep my privileges because they were part of the club package. I got over it ☺

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It's a bit more complex than leaving a rugby club.

Think of it as separating two co-joined twins who share part of the central nervous system.

Just saying that it has happened won't make it so.

 

[BBassic]

I voted to leave the club. The club has its rules and I still wanted to leave.

When I left my rugby club I gave up my discount ale and food vouchers and discount facility for 6 nations tickets.
I did not ask to keep my privileges because they were part of the club package. I got over it ☺

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Yes but if your decision to leave the rugby club affected my future I'd want some sort of review of the options.