[Politics] Sunak's benefits shake up

[Seagull58]

I may update on our MCF process at some point. Today's cockwomblery is beyond sanity.

MCF?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Interesting subject but just like discussions on immigration impossible subject to discuss on here. Majority seem to think there is no problem and revert to aggressive speak. This government has gone beyond gaining public confidence in anything but hope Labour have the balls to look into it.
Whilst I do not have the info to give an accurate opinion on national situation I have over years come across several cases in family friends and work environment. I know 2 who have not worked for years, lack confidence in social situations outside family. I am no doctor but I know both of there health would have improved a lot if they felt needed by society and had a job however small even for a few hours a week. For example collecting trolleys for supermarkets collecting rubbish on seafront /parks. Just to do this type of thing and then be told that they have done well and look forward to seeing them again would do them wonders. The one that is a relative I have always got him to Albion a couple of times a season and can only continue this because I have purchased him a membership and people in our crowd have been good and paid out for sharing scheme . He could not cope with a ST but when he attends it is a big thing and plans for days how he will get there.
Unfortunaley work situation has produced over the years many poor situations. In the past many when they had got fed up with job and way company may be going or didnt like new manager etc would just leave . Now see some saying they have been signed off with stress/anxiety etc through job, and for some are off for months.. I see one poster said they realised they were suffering from anxiety. I am in senior management and many times over years when our turnover had fallen to worrying levels had many anxiety and depressive times including poor sleep. Always coped and made big decisions needed. I didnt have a health issue and if I could not cope was in wrong job which was problem of some of our leavers that signed on with health problems.
I dont know how to deal with abusers of system because important not to affect genuine cases many of who need more help but as I said hope next government tackles this

Not sure anyone thinks there is no problem. The fag smoking fat 40s in their mobility scooters down here are a problem. The NHS and benefits system should not be finding ways to let fat scratch card and fag addicted chavs sponge off the state.

However it is much easier to attack those with invisible disability.

Sure. Sort it. Including mental health 'card' wavers.

But franchising the issue away from the NHS to private 'benefits assessors', no doubt rapidly created by grifter pals of tory MPs, like what happened with PPI, is not the answer.

When I say not the answer, I mean Sunk's 'proposal' is a f***ing disgrace.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

MCF?

Mitigating circumstances, er, process (P). Yet another typo, This time accidental.

Given your diligence, would you mind doing my homework for me? I want to watch telly and you can guess the rest.

 

[Seagull58]

Mitigating circumstances, er, process (P). Yet another typo, This time accidental.

Given your diligence, would you mind doing my homework for me? I want to watch telly and you can guess the rest.

 

[Cotton Socks]

He is signed off at present with various mental health 'issues.' There is absolutely nothing wrong with him by his own admission he just doesn't want to work. It's a shame as he's a really intelligent guy.

I'm only on page 11, so you may have answered this further down the line...
Do you know what his mental health issues are? When he says 'I don't want to work' are you assuming that's because he's a lazy tw@t who gets paid millions for sitting on the dole or is there a possibility that he's saying 'he doesn't want to work' because it's easier to say that, rather than giving his full mental health history to someone in a random conversation?
Do you have any idea what his mental health issues are aside from the fact he seems fine to you and has said he doesn't want to work?
I'm only singling out your response because of the fact your response seems to seek to demonstrate that mental health issues are visible (and I'm only on page 11).
I'm sure you can assure me that it's fact he doesn't have panic attacks, he's never wanted to end his life, he's never been 'really' down, he has nothing he should worry about and 'no reason' to be having mental health issues.
He may well be gaming the system but you're sounding like an ignorant tw@t who has no knowledge of mental health issues. Just to be clear I'm not personally insulting you or calling you an ignorant tw@t, I'm just saying that you're coming across as one on page 11. You may not sound like one by the time I get to the end of the thread.

 

[Cotton Socks]

I've skipped from page 11 to put in my all round thoughts to here, actually I got a bit further but was a bit shocked by some responses & giving my thoughts individually will take hours but unfortunately it just looks like I've had a go at @Cornwallboy (sorry) because it would take ages to fit everyone after his post in.

Mental health issues are not always seen and quite often it's the people that you think are absolutely fine, are the ones that aren't. I'll find the advert that should've reminded all of us to ask people if they're ok, about the guy who stopped turning up to the matches and his seat neighbour finding out he'd topped himself and post it in a minute.

I'm only speaking for Brighton here, as it appears Worthing is a lot better but there is virtually no mental health services available. Even private practices have waiting lists unless you can afford £100+ an hour. £50 an hour is cheap. After at least 6 months of being on the NHS waiting list in Brighton (that's very generous), you'll be offered a course of 6-12 CBT sessions, that really is a one size fits all programme but is very good. If the 6-12 CBT sessions haven't worked for you, then you're on your own. I really want to go off on a tangent to say why CBT doesn't fit all, but I wont.

There is no medical assessment of mental health apart from tick box questionnaires, unless you actually spend a couple of sessions with a mental health professional. What exactly is the proposal (yes I know it's not going to happen, but I'm angry). There are no mental health practitioners to help the people on the waiting list. Most of those who have stayed on the waiting list aren't f**king around looking to take some time off of work to make themselves feel more s**t. Where are all these 'people' going to come from that are 'qualified' enough to say that someones mental health is 'bad' enough (I hate that term) not to work?

In simple terms there is no one else but someones GP to say that someone has a mental health condition when there is no one else available. People who are in severe MH crisis get turned away from Millview as they've not tried hard enough to kill themselves. As much as I'd like to say that's an exaggeration, it's true & those that have tried hard enough are still kicked out a few hours later.

I'm being led by the thread to assume that the current government are dog whistling to the few supporters they have left, to target people with MH issues as their 'sick note' culture people. I didn't listen to the interview and BBC news has combined it to any one who's claiming disability benefits.

 

[Zeberdi]

I'm only on page 11, so you may have answered this further down the line...
Do you know what his mental health issues are? When he says 'I don't want to work' are you assuming that's because he's a lazy tw@t who gets paid millions for sitting on the dole or is there a possibility that he's saying 'he doesn't want to work' because it's easier to say that, rather than giving his full mental health history to someone in a random conversation?
Do you have any idea what his mental health issues are aside from the fact he seems fine to you and has said he doesn't want to work?
I'm only singling out your response because of the fact your response seems to seek to demonstrate that mental health issues are visible (and I'm only on page 11).
I'm sure you can assure me that it's fact he doesn't have panic attacks, he's never wanted to end his life, he's never been 'really' down, he has nothing he should worry about and 'no reason' to be having mental health issues.
He may well be gaming the system but you're sounding like an ignorant tw@t who has no knowledge of mental health issues. Just to be clear I'm not personally insulting you or calling you an ignorant tw@t, I'm just saying that you're coming across as one on page 11. You may not sound like one by the time I get to the end of the thread.

Good post.

There seems to be some rather judgmental attitudes being expressed on this thread - geez, I thought unfounded accusations that those with invisible disabilities are ‘sponging off the welfare state’ disappeared with ‘onyerbike’ Tebbit and the ‘authoritarian populism’ of Thatcherist Britain.

I did know someone once, who really pissed me off with his attitude though - at the time, I was working two jobs (full-time and weekend evenings) to pay my mortgage - he was perfectly fit (by his own admission), intelligent, middle class background and educated with no mental health issues other than sheer arrogance and a sense of entitlement - spent much of his time smoking dope, listening to music and preaching to others on matters of enlightenment and claiming moral superiority over those of us who were ‘slaves to the system’. When one day after one of his soliloquies on ‘freedom of the individual’, I asked him why didn’t he just get off his arse and get a job rather than relying on my tax contributions to support him, his response was: “I don’t subscribe to capitalism and why should I spend my life working if I don’t want to - I’ve only got one life”. I guess he didn’t see the irony (or hypocrisy) of depending on State Benefits from the very system he was proudly claiming to be independent from - what a tool. I never spoke to him again.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I'm only on page 11, so you may have answered this further down the line...
Do you know what his mental health issues are? When he says 'I don't want to work' are you assuming that's because he's a lazy tw@t who gets paid millions for sitting on the dole or is there a possibility that he's saying 'he doesn't want to work' because it's easier to say that, rather than giving his full mental health history to someone in a random conversation?
Do you have any idea what his mental health issues are aside from the fact he seems fine to you and has said he doesn't want to work?
I'm only singling out your response because of the fact your response seems to seek to demonstrate that mental health issues are visible (and I'm only on page 11).
I'm sure you can assure me that it's fact he doesn't have panic attacks, he's never wanted to end his life, he's never been 'really' down, he has nothing he should worry about and 'no reason' to be having mental health issues.
He may well be gaming the system but you're sounding like an ignorant tw@t who has no knowledge of mental health issues. Just to be clear I'm not personally insulting you or calling you an ignorant tw@t, I'm just saying that you're coming across as one on page 11. You may not sound like one by the time I get to the end of the thread.

He's a lazy **** who doesn't want to work.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm only on page 11, so you may have answered this further down the line...
Do you know what his mental health issues are? When he says 'I don't want to work' are you assuming that's because he's a lazy tw@t who gets paid millions for sitting on the dole or is there a possibility that he's saying 'he doesn't want to work' because it's easier to say that, rather than giving his full mental health history to someone in a random conversation?
Do you have any idea what his mental health issues are aside from the fact he seems fine to you and has said he doesn't want to work?
I'm only singling out your response because of the fact your response seems to seek to demonstrate that mental health issues are visible (and I'm only on page 11).
I'm sure you can assure me that it's fact he doesn't have panic attacks, he's never wanted to end his life, he's never been 'really' down, he has nothing he should worry about and 'no reason' to be having mental health issues.
He may well be gaming the system but you're sounding like an ignorant tw@t who has no knowledge of mental health issues. Just to be clear I'm not personally insulting you or calling you an ignorant tw@t, I'm just saying that you're coming across as one on page 11. You may not sound like one by the time I get to the end of the thread.

I salute your indefatigability

@Cornwallboy was happy pile in and 'call me out' (like a cat in the dark) earlier but when I asked him to answer some simple questions he didn't have the time to reply. Or the brains. Or the sense of honour, or self respect.

Who knew (apart from everybody?)

 

[CheeseRolls]

Out of interest, how would it be decided who would be best able to pay more?

Rock,paper, scissors - or you just revalue all properties and announce new bands.

 

[A1X]

 

[goldstone]

".... and our unemployment pay is the the stingiest in western Europe." Good, it's my taxes that are being used to finance the lives of the unemployed.

 

[goldstone]

Well, then he’s a w@nker, then. Untouched by mental ill health.

Soon to be on the US lectures circuit with Blair and Truss, earning untold millions.

Mental health, mental health, mental health. It's the latest faddish excuse for so many things. Go back a few decades and it was a term you never heard. Anyone with real mental health issues was locked away in St Francis Hospital out of harms way. Those feeling a bit "down" were told to get over it and get back to work.

 

[goldstone]

I was alerted to the presentation by a prior bit of chat on Nicky Campbell's programme when someone used the odious term 'mental health culture', you know, how people with mental health conditions are part of a movement that is abusing the welfare system.....

Correct. They are. And I'm bloody paying.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Correct. They are. And I'm bloody paying.

You OK, hun ?

 

[BBassic]

You OK, hun ?

Just another for the ignore list

 

[Guinness Boy]

Mental health, mental health, mental health. It's the latest faddish excuse for so many things. Go back a few decades and it was a term you never heard. Anyone with real mental health issues was locked away in St Francis Hospital out of harms way. Those feeling a bit "down" were told to get over it and get back to work.

 

[Justice]

Sunak is attempting to appeal to the right wing of the party by appearing to be more Tory. Problem is he is picking the wrong battles and also none of the Tories wanted him in the first place. Just give it up man.

He’s doing what all good Tories do, when need of votes attack the poor in hope to impress the wealthy. People on this thread have fallen for it and just as he wanted have started attacking the less wealthy and labelled them benefit cheats.

 

[Goldstone Guy]

Here's my opinion for what it's worth:

Most people off work in the long-term (“‘off sick”) are never going to get back to work. How much of the reason is genuine depression, anxiety, back pain etc and how much of it is an attitude/behavioural issue is hard to say, and probably impossible to prove one way or the other in a lot of cases. Once someone reaches their 40s and they haven’t worked for years, it’s too late. Most of them won’t become “economically active”.

The solution to reduce the number people in this situation is to help children gain confidence, self esteem and general life skills so that they develop into adults with a healthy, positive attitude towards life and social interaction with others, and find work to be a positive, fulfilling experience. (Having jobs where you don’t work an extremely pressurised 12-13 hour day non-stop without any breaks might help as well but that’s another story). This requires investment in education and sports, outdoor activities, arts, music etc to help them develop skills and be happy. It also requires investment in children’s mental health services so that if they do have problems (a lot of children and parents are coming forward now believing they may autism or ADHD for example) these can be treated and that person can get close to fulfilling their potential. Instead as a country we do the opposite. Teachers are not valued, schools are swamped with inspections, and children's mental health “services” are pretty much non-existent, so the problem of economically inactive adults will probably get worse in the next 10-15 years in my opinion as these untreated, neglected children reach working age.

So as usual this is problem of the government’s own making and they are making it worse. It is difficult because it requires a long-term vision over 10-20 years which of course is longer than the time-frame which governments work to. I wish someone in politics would come up with decent long-term policies looking way beyond their elected five year term - they’d get my vote if they did.

There’s another group of people who are economically inactive who want to get back to work but can’t work due to a fixable condition (eg hip osteoarthritis) and are waiting for treatment. Once they get treated they’ll be fit to return to work but of course the waiting lists are massive and so they’re off work for months to years waiting. Again a problem which the government have created themselves.

 

[Cornwallboy]

I'm only on page 11, so you may have answered this further down the line...
Do you know what his mental health issues are? When he says 'I don't want to work' are you assuming that's because he's a lazy tw@t who gets paid millions for sitting on the dole or is there a possibility that he's saying 'he doesn't want to work' because it's easier to say that, rather than giving his full mental health history to someone in a random conversation?
Do you have any idea what his mental health issues are aside from the fact he seems fine to you and has said he doesn't want to work?
I'm only singling out your response because of the fact your response seems to seek to demonstrate that mental health issues are visible (and I'm only on page 11).
I'm sure you can assure me that it's fact he doesn't have panic attacks, he's never wanted to end his life, he's never been 'really' down, he has nothing he should worry about and 'no reason' to be having mental health issues.
He may well be gaming the system but you're sounding like an ignorant tw@t who has no knowledge of mental health issues. Just to be clear I'm not personally insulting you or calling you an ignorant tw@t, I'm just saying that you're coming across as one on page 11. You may not sound like one by the time I get to the end of the thread.

So you've called me an ignorant twat but you haven't called me that??

I salute your indefatigability

@Cornwallboy was happy pile in and 'call me out' (like a cat in the dark) earlier but when I asked him to answer some simple questions he didn't have the time to reply. Or the brains. Or the sense of honour, or self respect.

Who knew (apart from everybody?)

There you go again, insulting people you don't agree with!! You need some self reflection.