[Politics] Sunak's benefits shake up

[Iggle Piggle]

Huh? It’s been a perfectly respectful discussion. Not sure what thread you’ve been reading.

I can't be arsed to explain as life is too short and why I should stay off political threads. I think me and my work colleagues have decided to go for a pint instead which is a much better use of my time.

 

[Berty23]

Nothing wrong with tax avoidance. We're right in the middle of ISA season. ISAs (introduced by Labour under Blair) allow people to save up to £20K a year without being taxed on interest, dividends, capital growth etc. All perfectly legal. Same with pension funds which allow tax-efficient savings. If you mean tax evasion which is unlawfully hiding money from the Revenue to avoid declaring it and paying tax, then sure, we agree totally.

Thanks. I was hoping someone would try and be smart with that and now I can ask the follow the follow up…why is doing all you can to avoid paying tax you don’t have to any different to claiming benefits you are fully entitled to claim?

 

[Cornwallboy]

There has been a structural change post pandemic. 100,000’s of the 16 to 30 cohort don’t want to be slaves to the 35 to 40 hour week that we signed up to. I know some of them. Not laziness, instead self awareness of mental health. The same in other countries eg France.

Not laziness? What is it then? So they don't want to work FT because of 'self awareness of mental health?' How do you suggest they fund rent / clothes / entertainment etc if they don't want to work FT?

 

[Me Atome]

Like it or not, we have an unsustainable number of people on benefits. Tory government are looking at ways to address the issue. Most are forecasting that this government will last only a few more months, so the simple thing is to do nothing and let the new (labour) government sort it. Or you guys at work can work harder and harder for less and less returns to pay the bills.

 

[Weststander]

The only post on this thread really worth reading albeit I've liked a few along the way.

An argument about a thing that will never happen that has bought out the worst in a few to make their points with views that will never change no matter what is written.

Bring back the spoons thread.

Is that the pro and anti Tim Martin binfest, I love it without even contributing. There are a hell of a lot of high horses being ridden

 

[The Fits]

Like it or not, we have an unsustainable number of people on benefits. Tory government are looking at ways to address the issue. Most are forecasting that this government will last only a few more months, so the simple thing is to do nothing and let the new (labour) government sort it. Or you guys at work can work harder and harder for less and less returns to pay the bills.

The crux of that argument: people perceive they are working harder, for less, because of the benefits system and people that claim benefits.
There's enough information in this thread alone to dispell that myth.
We are working harder, for less, because of our current Government.

 

[The Clamp]

I do think people do need to learn or in some cases, re-learn resilience.

I think there is a significant part of the population who were furloughed on 80% wages, topped up to 100% by the government grants got to keep their jobs, stay at home and play with their dogs and kids, get cost of living handouts who were a bit shocked when they were asked to go back to work and earn their money again.

Others of us who worked all the way through in high risk jobs and got F all because we were key workers but didn’t have an NHS neck lanyard, seem to have coped best with getting back on with life because we were there, all the way through while some sat at home, getting paid, and thinking the days of milk and honey would never end. But they did.

That needs to be addressed. But this isn’t the way.

We need a fully operational mental health structure in place in the NHS to properly sort the true cases from those suffering with a bit of work shy-itis.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's funny, it crossed my mind that I might hear some Champagne corks from due west.

You’ll certainly hear them due east!

 

[BLOCK F]

There has been a structural change post pandemic. 100,000’s of the 16 to 30 cohort don’t want to be slaves to the 35 to 40 hour week that we signed up to. I know some of them. Not laziness, instead self awareness of mental health. The same in other countries eg France.

Good heavens, if people can’t face working a 35/40 hour week when they are fit and young, then I despair for their future prospects! I would even go so far as to say their mental health will suffer even more from being almost permanently skint!
Resilience doesn’t seem to exist anymore amongst some. Having said that, my reasonable knowledge of that generation suggests that a good number do work hard.

 

[Weststander]

You’ll certainly hear them due east!

Will you have company?

I’ve watched them solo since May 79 …. I remember the p’d off Tideway teachers on the Friday . But my Trump hating daughter then 15 joined me the last presidential election night.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Did he actually though?


I'm not his biggest fan, and there's a hint of a dead cat bounce here, but I would imagine the overwhelming majority of NSCers would want the benefit abuser issue tackled head on?

Just last week the £54million benefit scam by the Bulgarian Crime gang, surely you'd like to see that kind of thing eradicated?

Yes. But given the huge problems in the UK at the moment, and given the low numbers of benefit fiddlers, it’s not exactly top of the priority list. I’d prefer he sort out the mess his colleague Truss caused with cost of living and a huge investment in health care…1.8 million waiting for mental health care?

 

[Weststander]

Good heavens, if people can’t face working a 35/40 hour week when they are fit and young, then I despair for their future prospects! I would even go so far as to say their mental health will suffer even more from being almost permanently skint!
Resilience doesn’t seem to exist anymore amongst some. Having said that, my reasonable knowledge of that generation suggests that a good number do work hard.

Western Europe is facing some huge issues and this is one of them. This whole thing hasn’t been clocked by the populace as a whole.

I wasn’t a money obsessive or grafter but from 17, with a break for uni, rolled up at offices or building sites for 5 day week without a complaint. You just did it, passed down the gens.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Will you have company?

I’ve watched them solo since May 79 …. I remember the p’d off Tideway teachers on the Friday . But my Trump hating daughter then 15 joined me the last presidential election night.

There are at least 3 who have discussed the all-brighter, whether we join up or keep in touch from our respective abodes remains to be seen.

 

[BLOCK F]

This is a huge opportunity for radical change. As usual you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg and there will always be winners and losers. You do realise that you can be both in full time employment and receiving benefits?

Here's one way this could be addressed.
1 Significantly raise the minimum wage, reducing the benefits claimed.
2 As this will push the costs onto businesses significantly reduce business rates on properties (helping the High Street)
3 This will hit local government finances hard, which are already under severe stress, so increase central government funding, based on savings in the welfare budget.
4 If a government has a big enough majority it could also tackle the huge inequity in Council Tax raising. The current banding system is massively outdated. A rebanding exercise would largely place the burden on those best able to pay more. (Note I would expect to do very badly personally out of this one).

Out of interest, how would it be decided who would be best able to pay more?

 

[BLOCK F]

Western Europe is facing some huge issues and this is one of them. This whole thing hasn’t been clocked by the populace as a whole.

I wasn’t a money obsessive or grafter but from 17, with a break for uni, rolled up at offices or building sites for 5 day week without a complaint. You just did it, passed down the gens.

Exactly, so if this cohort that are unwilling to face 35/40 hours a week want a decent future and ‘prospects’, then they will have to develop some resilience and face reality. The alternative would not be pleasant.

 

[MJsGhost]

Exactly, so if this cohort that are unwilling to face 35/40 hours a week want a decent future and ‘prospects’, then they will have to develop some resilience and face reality. The alternative would not be pleasant.

Sadly, the 'reality' is that this cohort doesn't have the same prospects as previous generations.
An average income for previous generations meant being able to buy a house relatively easily. These days (THESE DAYS), only those with help from parents (/family wealth) and/or above average income can get anywhere near the housing ladder.
The demotivation of facing the reality that even by working your arse off, you'll only ever be able to afford to rent and therefore help someone wealthy pay off their buy-to-let mortgage should not be underestimated. Just expecting them to be 'resilient' in the face of their reality doesn't cut it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yes, ages and several PM's ago at good odds. But gutted the stakes are modest.

Do you stay up late on election nights? I do. If you do, I guarantee you'll have a great night. With virtual company all night from @Bozza and many nsc'ers.

I did in 97 and I will again this time. It will hopefully be glorious

Given that the 'new' Those That Can Work Should Work 'policy' has already captured the imagination of those concerned about Bulgarian Crime Gangs, I'm still not convinced that 'Soft-Touch Starmer' and his gang of dole-scum and Council Hose Cheats is out of the woods just yet. And let's not forget the criminal, Angie

No smoke without fire

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Exactly, so if this cohort that are unwilling to face 35/40 hours a week want a decent future and ‘prospects’, then they will have to develop some resilience and face reality. The alternative would not be pleasant.

Or if enough just down tools then someone will have to consider the situation ? It’s a two way street.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So those of you who are opposed to the Conservative's crackdown on benefit claimants: are you saying every person claiming some sort of benefit is a legitimate claimant?

<sigh>

The issue is that Sunk is planning to take the decision about who is sick enough for sick pay away from the sickness experts (medics: GPs and consultants) and hand over the decisions to an as yet un-named quango.

Nobody said all benefit claimants are legitimate.

Do you still not understand?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I did in 97 and I will again this time. It will hopefully be glorious

Given that the 'new' Those That Can Work Should Work 'policy' has already captured the imagination of those concerned about Bulgarian Crime Gangs, I'm still not convinced that 'Soft-Touch Starmer' and his gang of dole-scum and Council Hose Cheats is out of the woods just yet. And let's not forget the criminal, Angie

No smoke without fire

I remember ‘97 so well. I was living in Camden and stayed up most of the night. The next morning I had to go to Islington to a photographer’s house. He took an iconic photo of Gordon Smith about to score at Wembley, you know the one, which appeared in The Guardian a week or so earlier; I had seen it and contacted him to buy a copy. That was a lovely morning, had a good chat about Brighton and politics in his lovely house. Afternoon I made my way to Hereford.