[Politics] Sunak's benefits shake up

[Cornwallboy]

You really think a Tory government would say "Right, we've saved £2 billion in fraudulent welfare claims, we are now going to increase spending on genuine welfare claimants", as opposed to "Right, we've saved £2 billion in fraudulent welfare claims, we are now going to give away another £2 billion in tax cuts to our rich mates and sponsors in the City."?

Probably not no, I wasn't saying they would I was thinking 'ideal scenario.'

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The 'bar' needs to be crackdown down on people claiming benefits who shouldn't be.

why?

 

[Cornwallboy]

sounds like he won't be effected by this "crackdown" as he is in, even in the eyes of the DWP, fit to work if he's been asked to do so. A slightly separate issue really as this is more about those who are signed off

He is signed off at present with various mental health 'issues.' There is absolutely nothing wrong with him by his own admission he just doesn't want to work. It's a shame as he's a really intelligent guy.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

He is signed off at present with various mental health 'issues.' There is absolutely nothing wrong with him by his own admission he just doesn't want to work. It's a shame as he's a really intelligent guy.

Which is probably why he doesn't want to work.

 

[Cornwallboy]

Which is probably why he doesn't want to work.

What cos he's signed off or cos he's intelligent ?

 

[Pavilionaire]

It is pathetic to see the Tories rolling out a playbook that is over 40 years old, punching down on the weakest and most vulnerable in society, demonising the homeless, jobless, the sick and immigrants.

Punching down worked in the early 80s when Britain was still a casually sexist, racist and homophobic place and The Sun called the shots. We loved a common enemy back then, so no wonder the Tories have tried to turn the country back to a pre-EU state. Tory politics hasn't moved with the times, so maybe their party IS dead?

 

[Barnet Seagull]

Well it was you that quoted some statistics here



The source for this statistic ? (Which even you must understand would look VERY different without pensioners )

https://www.civitas.org.uk/publications/an-analysis-of-the-effects-of-taxes-and-benefits-on-household-income/#:~:text=This analysis of Office for,than they paid in taxes.

Civitas, a right wing think tank based at 55 Tufton Street . If you use these organisations as the basis for your information, then it really shouldn't be a surprise that you would find this message board very left wing. Ever been had ?

And this is why we should tax much more broadly than just income.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

What cos he's signed off or cos he's intelligent ?

Because he has assessed what he's likely to earn for his time lost and decided he'd rather game the system.

Is it really any different to tax evaders?
People gaming the system to suit themselves.
Much smaller sums involved.

 

[Brian Fantana]

He is signed off at present with various mental health 'issues.' There is absolutely nothing wrong with him by his own admission he just doesn't want to work. It's a shame as he's a really intelligent guy.

If he's able to game the system currently, what makes you so sure that he won't be able to continue doing so under any proposed changes?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Wow so if that's the case every claimant is legitimate and nobody ever cheats the system and clearly the 850k extra claimants since Covid have every right to claim benefits. Maybe the one benefit claimant I know who is late 40's and has never held down a FT job as he 'doesn't want one' has not been cheating the system for 30 odd years but has every right to live in the council house provided to him and spend the money the Govn give him for doing f all. Do you know what he says? When these 'crackdowns' are launched he makes a token effort to look for work, if you do that they soon leave you alone and you continue as you are. He is a living and breathing example of what is wrong with the benefit system and if he finally loses all of his benefits it will serve him right. I do find it hard to believe he isn't the only one milking the system but again I reiterate there are plenty of genuine claimants who deserve full support be in financial or mental health support.

One of the major arguments put AGAINST lockdown by right wingers is that it would affect people's mental health.

It's certainly had an affect on the mental health of many young people who were school age when Covid hit. It's factually documented that school refusal and anxiety is through the roof. My own daughter is far more anxious these days than she was in 2019. Hardly surprising is it?

 

[Cornwallboy]

If he's able to game the system currently, what makes you so sure that he won't be able to continue doing so under any proposed changes?

Based on what's he has said in response to previous 'crackdowns.' 'Play their game for a while and they soon leave you alone.'

 

[Cornwallboy]

One of the major arguments put AGAINST lockdown by right wingers is that it would affect people's mental health.

It's certainly had an affect on the mental health of many young people who were school age when Covid hit. It's factually documented that school refusal and anxiety is through the roof. My own daughter is far more anxious these days than she was in 2019. Hardly surprising is it?

Agree not very surprising and I hope your daughter's anxiety eases over time.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Based on what's he has said in response to previous 'crackdowns.' 'Play their game for a while and they soon leave you alone.'

That's my exact point. These 'crackdowns' will still allow people through the gaps who have become adept at playing the system, whilst genuine claimants without so much knowledge of the system might struggle to get the help and support they're entitled to.

 

[The Clamp]

I had to go on JSA for a short while a few years ago. They literally never stopped threatening me the entire 4 months.

Threatening to send me to unpaid work placements.

Make me spend 8 hours a day in their job centre looking for work.

Threatening to sanction me.

Treated me like scum.

I guess if you can endure that, you can get away with living on the rock n roll for life?

 

[Beanstalk]

But I saw a stat the other day that showed a record 54.2% of people (36 million) now live in households which received more in benefits than they contributed in taxes, which is a little disturbing. Would be good to see the stats without pensioners.

It does feel like this country and especially the youth (yes I know they have it hard) are pretty work shy these days. Hard to recruit in retail for instance since Brexit.

If it feels like the youth of this country is work-shy then I'd advise that factually there is little to support that apart from some very angry richer older people (not yourself @dwayne, I'm talking about the likes of 30p Lee, and JRM) yelling it as loud as they can in the media. UK youth unemployment rates are currently some of the lowest this country has ever seen, with the current rate of 12.1% of 16-24 year olds in December 2023 to February 2024, actually being 0.5% lower than pre-pandemic levels. This is also considerably lower than pre-2008 economic crash levels, when the number hovered around 14%.

 

[Cornwallboy]

That's my exact point. These 'crackdowns' will still allow people through the gaps who have become adept at playing the system, whilst genuine claimants without so much knowledge of the system might struggle to get the help and support they're entitled to.

My hope is that the genuine continue to receive help and that the lazy don't.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Good news for anyone interested in tangibles and realities.

I just listened to Sunak's speech - any changes would happen in the next parliament under a Tory government.

SO, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!

IT'S IMPORTANT TO POINT THIS OUT BECAUSE THERE'LL NOW BE FOLK HERE WORRIED ... YOU SHOULDN'T BE.

The only post on this thread really worth reading albeit I've liked a few along the way.

An argument about a thing that will never happen that has bought out the worst in a few to make their points with views that will never change no matter what is written.

Bring back the spoons thread.

 

[Brian Fantana]

My hope is that the genuine continue to receive help and that the lazy don't.

And that's a very noble take, which I'm sure pretty much everyone would agree with. The issue though, which you've helpfully alluded to with your own personal example, is that separating genuine from the lazy isn't something that is easily done. Especially when the suggestions are to take the fit for work decision away from a GP and onto someone with less knowledge and potentially no medical training. Who would you better trust to spot a genuine mental health issue versus something trying it on? A GP or someone non-medical?

 

[Cornwallboy]

And that's a very noble take, which I'm sure pretty much everyone would agree with. The issue though, which you've helpfully alluded to with your own personal example, is that separating genuine from the lazy isn't something that is easily done. Especially when the suggestions are to take the fit for work decision away from a GP and onto someone with less knowledge and potentially no medical training. Who would you better trust to spot a genuine mental health issue versus something trying it on? A GP or someone non-medical?

A GP.

 

[The Clamp]

The only post on this thread really worth reading albeit I've liked a few along the way.

An argument about a thing that will never happen that has bought out the worst in a few to make their points with views that will never change no matter what is written.

Bring back the spoons thread.

Huh? It’s been a perfectly respectful discussion. Not sure what thread you’ve been reading.