[Albion] Stop this false nine nonsense now

[Kosh]

This whole false 9, paradoxical 10, or fey 9.5 malarkey is mystifying... yes we threw Klopp a bit of a curve ball, but we got lucky too, very lucky and Tross did his ‘big’ game turn up bit and followed it up with his meh shoulder shrugging exasperated after the Lord Mayors show thing.

Surely Graham realises this is an utter folly, reducing our already limited threat further still by reducing the numbers of players on the pitch who actually represent a slight threat .... hmmmmmmmm. Given the opposition during the past two games, I’m struggling to see the genius... I’m struggling to see the logic, it’s not good enough - it’s a draw first mentality and it’s akin to CH way more than I could have foreseen.

We need less plod more God and fast... time to bring out our Ecuadorian game changer ... why? Why not?!? I’d also recall Aaron and Maupay, but that’s just me. We need a shake up and fast, also it’ll surprise the Leeds world beating manager, I can see his eyebrows momentarily furrowing when that team sheet is plonked on his bucket.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Obviously my comment was tongue in cheek, but it speaks to a wider truth. Potter has never been afraid to practise things, try different things out, all the while he's been with us. It doesn't always work, but I don't mind that. You don't progress without experimenting, working on new things. And part of that practise and experimentation is for us as a team, and part is for him as a manager. He's still quite raw.

Either something will click with this system and it becomes a key part of our armory, or it won't and it will get dropped. Right now my money is on the latter, but I couldn't say for sure. Either way Potter will become a better manager as a result.

I know, and to a degree so was mine.

The system worked well against Liverpool and 2nd half against Man City but not against Newcastle who sat back and Villa who let us have the ball deep but then squeezed the space. That's not so much an experiment as two bad decisions in a row. Yesterday a particularly bad one in front of a loud and big away turn out who'd all probably forked out over £100 on the day out and were rewarded by us not turning up - which was exactly the main charge against Hughton.

 

[Frankworthington]

This whole false 9, paradoxical 10, or fey 9.5 malarkey is mystifying... yes we threw Klopp a bit of a curve ball, but we got lucky too, very lucky and Tross did his ‘big’ game turn up bit and followed it up with his meh shoulder shrugging exasperated after the Lord Mayors show thing.

Surely Graham realises this is an utter folly, reducing our already limited threat further still by reducing the numbers of players on the pitch who actually represent a slight threat .... hmmmmmmmm. Given the opposition during the past two games, I’m struggling to see the genius... I’m struggling to see the logic, it’s not good enough - it’s a draw first mentality and it’s akin to CH way more than I could have foreseen.

We need less plod more God and fast... time to bring out our Ecuadorian game changer ... why? Why not?!? I’d also recall Aaron and Maupay, but that’s just me. We need a shake up and fast, also it’ll surprise the Leeds world beating manager, I can see his eyebrows momentarily furrowing when that team sheet is plonked on his bucket.

Totally this

I stated that Connolly start next game partly in jest, but why not? Maupay CANNOT play up front on his own.I would line up just as you suggest.Leeds are unlikely to turn up and park the bus and have a terrible defence

I will get my hard-hat and flack jacket

 

[Kosh]

Totally this

I stated that Connolly start next game partly in jest, but why not? Maupay CANNOT play up front on his own.I would line up just as you suggest.Leeds are unlikely to turn up and park the bus and have a terrible defence

I will get my hard-hat and flack jacket

Indeed, it’s bold it’s positive it’s all the things GP used to represent ... he’s losing his nerve a bit I suspect, and if he opts for 5-6 holding midfielders against Leeds ... 1-0 to the bad guys as sure as I like the music of deep purple.

I’d take a dramatic 2-2 or a mesmeric 4-2 win over a sideways extravaganza, a pointless possession jamboree of ironic glee.

Bodies in the box, high energy, high press ... lets bloody go for the win.

 

[Wardy's twin]

He’s got pace but as shown yesterday he’s got a long way to go on end product and decision-making.

That's true but players running into the box with ball often force defenders into making decisions and often the wrong one. He possibly also has the view that he is a provider (like most of the team) rather than just take it on.

We don't seem to have a player like AK or Izzy who can run and shoot, maybe Trossard but he is not fast enough. I would have thought it is time to give Sarmiento some game time because its the top end where we have the problems.

 

[Kosh]

If you analyse the two previous home games vs Newcastle, you can see the regression in tactical approach and intent... we started against a piss poor Newcastle with a genuine attacking two, backed up by a central AMC, and two attacking WBs and we won 3-0.

This time around, against a piss poor Newcastle, we started with a none existent 9 and lacked any conviction in our limited attacking play ... they were there for the taking.

For me, as I’ve said elsewhere, I think we’re seeing GP putting safety first, which I’m sure even he would be disappointed with if he took the time to analyse his recent tactical paralysis.

It’s utterly bizarre, and (frankly) very disappointing.

 

[Swansman]

If you analyse the two previous home games vs Newcastle, you can see the regression in tactical approach and intent... we started against a piss poor Newcastle with a genuine attacking two, backed up by a central AMC, and two attacking WBs and we won 3-0.

This time around, against a piss poor Newcastle, we started with a none existent 9 and lacked any conviction in our limited attacking play ... they were there for the taking.

For me, as I’ve said elsewhere, I think we’re seeing GP putting safety first, which I’m sure even he would be disappointed with if he took the time to analyse his recent tactical paralysis.

It’s utterly bizarre, and (frankly) very disappointing.

They were not there for the taking, no one in the Premier League are "there for the taking". I dont understand how you can watch 100+ Premier League games and believe that. If you want to beat someone, you have to earn it. No one shows up and gives you the points for free.

I think Neal Maupay and Danny Welbeck both would have started against both Newcastle and Aston Villa if Welbeck was fit. Now he isnt and Maupay as a lone striker is very rarely a success story, so you look for alternatives.

There is also no tactical paralysis. The team plays in different ways and with different formations in different games. Brighton didnt start with the same formation against Villa as against Newcastle. There is no such paralysis. Poor tactical decisions? Possibly. Arguably. But there's no "paralysis".

 

[Russconha]

We need a Meta 9

 

[Kosh]

They were not there for the taking, no one in the Premier League are "there for the taking". I dont understand how you can watch 100+ Premier League games and believe that. If you want to beat someone, you have to earn it. No one shows up and gives you the points for free.

I think Neal Maupay and Danny Welbeck both would have started against both Newcastle and Aston Villa if Welbeck was fit. Now he isnt and Maupay as a lone striker is very rarely a success story, so you look for alternatives.

There is also no tactical paralysis. The team plays in different ways and with different formations in different games. Brighton didnt start with the same formation against Villa as against Newcastle. There is no such paralysis. Poor tactical decisions? Possibly. Arguably. But there's no "paralysis".

I disagree, Newcastle are (or perhaps were) dire - actually diabolical. Yes the shape was perhaps slightly different than vs. Villa but the lack on any focal point, central or even high line pace when options ARE available (even as subs) is poor. Poor tactically, and I’d say we lined up cautiously for two eminently winnable games - plain and simple. Why not play Tross and Maupay as a proper front two?

Both games showed what we were missing; great in possession (yes) but a clear lack of attacking players in the box at key moments... for me to repeat this twice in two games isn’t good enough and attempting to defend GP and the tactical setup therein says more about your unconscious bias paralysis than even his own.

It’s not a good trend right now, even you surely crave a throw of the dice against Leeds?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

He’s got pace but as shown yesterday he’s got a long way to go on end product and decision-making.

But to be fair his decision making was restricted by lack of numbers in the box, so his only options were largely to go backwards.

 

[Swansman]

I disagree, Newcastle are (or perhaps were) dire - actually diabolical. Yes the shape was perhaps slightly different than vs. Villa but the lack on any focal point, central or even high line pace when options ARE available even as subs is poor. Poor tactically, and I’d say we lined up cautiously for two eminently winnable games.

Both games showed what we were missing; great in possession (yes) but a clear lack of attacking players in the box at key moments... for me to repeat this twice in two games isn’t good enough and attempting to defend GP and the tactical setup therein says more about your unconscious bias paralysis than even his own.

It’s not a good trend right now, even you surely crave a throw of the dice against Leeds?

Some of the teams are worse than others, none are "diabolical". Yes they've lost half of their games but the other half they havent lost despite allegedly being "diabolical". How come half of the teams playing Newcastle lost points to a "diabolical" team? Because they are not. No team in the PL is. Obviously it was a winable game but nothing comes for free and you have to deserve every win/point you get even against the bottom sides.

I dont agree with pretty much any of that. I think both against (especially) Newcastle and Villa, the team was poor in possession but that the number of players in the box wasnt the core issue. For the most part, there was a couple of players in there, but also for the most part players were either indecisive or making the wrong decisions.

Is part of that GPs fault? Obviously, and I've already said that GP ****ed the game yesterday with the Maupay for Lamptey sub. But yet again when a football team loses a game there is this absurd obsession what some middle management bloke did or didnt do as if the 22 people on the pitch has no impact on the results.

70+ teams in the English league thinks that through changing managers every one and half years every problem will suddenly be solved and they will finally reach their deserved heights, just to quickly realise (and then yet again forget) that football is played on the pitch and thats where you lose and win most games. Sack all managers and replace them with 20 poo eating monkeys and the league table would not look a lot different. Yet managers are always talk of the town.

 

[Stat Brother]

I disagree, Newcastle are (or perhaps were) dire - actually diabolical. Yes the shape was perhaps slightly different than vs. Villa but the lack on any focal point, central or even high line pace when options ARE available (even as subs) is poor. Poor tactically, and I’d say we lined up cautiously for two eminently winnable games - plain and simple. Why not play Tross and Maupay as a proper front two?

Both games showed what we were missing; great in possession (yes) but a clear lack of attacking players in the box at key moments... for me to repeat this twice in two games isn’t good enough and attempting to defend GP and the tactical setup therein says more about your unconscious bias paralysis than even his own.

It’s not a good trend right now, even you surely crave a throw of the dice against Leeds?

In the 3-0 game Maupay and Welbeck each played out wide leaving acres of space through the middle for Moder, Trossard & Gross (?)

As you say these last two games the width has been provided by the wing backs - happy days.
But they are completely negated if nobody is in the middle or even ahead of them.


As I said this morning we have all the pieces in place to make a good striker great and a great striker - too good for us.


The team is playing without a striker.

 

[b.w.2.]

They were not there for the taking, no one in the Premier League are "there for the taking". I dont understand how you can watch 100+ Premier League games and believe that. If you want to beat someone, you have to earn it. No one shows up and gives you the points for free.

I think Neal Maupay and Danny Welbeck both would have started against both Newcastle and Aston Villa if Welbeck was fit. Now he isnt and Maupay as a lone striker is very rarely a success story, so you look for alternatives.

There is also no tactical paralysis. The team plays in different ways and with different formations in different games. Brighton didnt start with the same formation against Villa as against Newcastle. There is no such paralysis. Poor tactical decisions? Possibly. Arguably. But there's no "paralysis".

Poor tactical decisions is a definite yes. Not “possibly. Arguably.” The ‘tactics’ against both Newcastle and Villa were massive similar mistakes. And where has this Maupay cannot play on his own come from!? We have one fit average Prem striker, who is our top scorer, and the genius Potter inexplicably chooses to okay zero strikers against bottom of the league Newcastle and five losses in a row Villa. Pathetic decision making.


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[b.w.2.]

In the 3-0 game Maupay and Welbeck each played out wide leaving acres of space through the middle for Moder, Trossard & Gross (?)

As you say these last two games the width has been provided by the wing backs - happy days.
But they are completely negated if nobody is in the middle or even ahead of them.


As I said this morning we have all the pieces in place to make a good striker great and a great striker - too good for us.


The team is playing without a striker.

Exactly. As usual, Swanny spouting nonsense in defence of his man-love


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[Swansman]

Poor tactical decisions is a definite yes. Not “possibly. Arguably.” The ‘tactics’ against both Newcastle and Villa were massive similar mistakes. And where has this Maupay cannot play on his own come from!? We have one fit average Prem striker, who is our top scorer, and the genius Potter inexplicably chooses to okay zero strikers against bottom of the league Newcastle and five losses in a row Villa. Pathetic decision making.


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I dont know the exact tactical instructions Potter gave against Newcastle and Villa so I'll stick with arguably/possibly. Especially against Newcastle I think its hard to put it down to tactics, I dont think Potter gave the guys the instruction to give the ball away to the opponents over and over again in the second half.

Maupay on his own usually goes invisible. He is a team player, not a solo one - he cant outmuscle players, he cant outpace them, he cant dribble them. He can outthink them and outwork them but those qualities mainly count when you pair him with someone. He has looked a lot better playing next to Welbeck or even next to Connolly, but Welbeck is injured and I'm not sure what GP/you/Aaron and/or his babes have done with him but he is obviously not in contention right now. Think we'll see Maupay start against Leeds though unless there's some secret reason he isnt starting.

 

[Acker79]

Putting my conspiracy hat on for a post... is this a message from Potter to the recruitment team about our striking options as we approach the January window? Early discussions about what might be available, who they're willing to go for v who he wants etc maybe not pleasing him?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Some of the teams are worse than others, none are "diabolical". Yes they've lost half of their games but the other half they havent lost despite allegedly being "diabolical".

Or, putting it another way, they haven't won all season. And Villa had lost their last FIVE.

At the end of the day we want to be top ten this season and you have to do better than one point out of those two games to do that. And the first part is Tony Bloom saying it, not me.

 

[b.w.2.]

I dont know the exact tactical instructions Potter gave against Newcastle and Villa so I'll stick with arguably/possibly. Especially against Newcastle I think its hard to put it down to tactics, I dont think Potter gave the guys the instruction to give the ball away to the opponents over and over again in the second half.

Maupay on his own usually goes invisible. He is a team player, not a solo one - he cant outmuscle players, he cant outpace them, he cant dribble them. He can outthink them and outwork them but those qualities mainly count when you pair him with someone. He has looked a lot better playing next to Welbeck or even next to Connolly, but Welbeck is injured and I'm not sure what GP/you/Aaron and/or his babes have done with him but he is obviously not in contention right now. Think we'll see Maupay start against Leeds though unless there's some secret reason he isnt starting.

Play Tross with him. Or Tolaj. Or both. Anyway, my main point is we should not be in this position. I correctly predicted Welbs would miss about half the season, and our beloved leaders chose to do **** all about it in the summer. Having failed to do **** all about it for around 2 years previously.


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[Bold Seagull]

It’s a proper toys out the pram-fest this weekend. When is the poll due?

 

[um bongo molongo]

I think the issue is less one about ‘false 9’ and more one about ‘no decent #9 to pick’