[Politics] Stop the boats

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'd be interested to know what your views and opinions are with how the lefty Labour Party would deal with this issue. If anyone thinks they can put a stop to it then they're deluded.

Why would there be a need to put a stop to it? Especially if, as you suggest, it is impossible? Also, which lefty labour did you have in mind? An hour or so ago I read that Starmer is a traitor to the left, betraying Corbyn's committed opposition to all things Israel....

Labour will have their work cut out, to be sure. The choice is do nothing or throw money at it. Voters (especially those obsessed by 'people coming over here') do not want to spend a single penny on this. That is why we spend little processing these people, and simply farm them to temporary accommodation (from which they abscond - my brothers; job is to find temporary accommodation for asylum seekers and this is what he tells me is happening - all due to a refusal of HMG to spend the necessary money).

So if Labour decide to do something they will have to spend money. Then the right will boo. BOO!

My view is that to 'stop the boats', this has to be done in France, from whence the boast emanate. To do this requires work done on the French coast, with lots of patrols, supplemented with lost of drones patrolling coasts where boats can feasibly leave. This requires co-operation with the French, and the spending of lots of British money. But it isn't impossible. In effect you 'shoo' the boats back to France before they have had a chance to enter 'neutral' or 'British' water.

There, that took me ten minutes to think up. I am sure Labour can do better when they get in. If I were them, though, I would offer no solutions publicly yet. Sunak is now so desperate he may simply steal them all.

Beyond all this more work should be done rebuilding relations with the French and the EU. How do the 'illegal' immigrants get into France in the first place? Where are they sheltering before they get on an 'illegal boat'? I get the impression France no longer bothers spending money to stop boats leaving. Certainly if Braverman were French president she would suggest it is 'not our problem'. This is all the toxic product of years of sabre rattling Brexiteering. We can't turn back that clock, but Labour must work with France and the EU if a solution is to be found.

So collaboration with France and spending money. If this halves the number of boats in a year, this will still be seized on as Failure by the right wing press, and not only that, a Waste of Money, so whatever labour do they will lose votes as a consequence. This is because the tories are not bothered about stopping the boats. This is because they have successfully weaponized 'illegal' immigration in their true war, the war against Labour. Judging by your attitude, the tories are winning this war.

Aside from all that, this should not detract from the fact that the current tories are utterly useless, some of them vile scum, and they need to be voted out.

 

[Eric the meek]

This would have to be announced in Parliament before the press conference, surely. There's a statement at 12:30

Yes, you're right. James Cleverly is making a statement at 12.30.

Depending on the content, it may be that Suella Braverman was bypassed and kept out of the loop, rendering her leaving swipe at Sunak for not having a plan B, looking a bit silly.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Yes, you're right. James Cleverly is making a statement at 12.30.

Depending on the content, it may be that Suella Braverman was bypassed and kept out of the loop, rendering her leaving swipe at Sunak for not having a plan B, looking a bit silly.

New treaty with Rwanda just mentioned in PMQs.

 

[KZNSeagull]

New treaty with Rwanda just mentioned in PMQs.

Which would be a bit pointless unless Rwanda can prove that it's record on processing asylum claims has dramatically improved.

 

[A1X]

Leaving the ECHR would never get through parliament

They know it so it's just a gimmick for headlines

The Supreme Court ruling also explicitly stated that it would make absolutely no difference to the plan being unlawful.

 

[amexer]

Well. We seem to put them onto disease ridden barges.
I’m assuming your young relatives’ plans weren’t too disrupted?
Unless they were planning on getting legionella?

Dont quite understand what point you are making. I am just saying our own young people cant get homes so where do we house immigrants as Rawanda and barges is not right. I have just spent 2 weeks in Germany and it is also a big problem there but of course they do have more room.
Whether I read opinions on here, the media or politcians nobody has a solution. It is a world crisis that needs to be solved by them all together.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

The French should be stifling the supply of boats. I don’t think they’ll be swimming over.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The French should be stifling the supply of boats. I don’t think they’ll be swimming over.

They try to. Popping inflatable boats when they find them is one of their tactics. But, needless to say, they have to find them first.

 

[fly high]

Why would there be a need to put a stop to it? Especially if, as you suggest, it is impossible? Also, which lefty labour did you have in mind? An hour or so ago I read that Starmer is a traitor to the left, betraying Corbyn's committed opposition to all things Israel....

Labour will have their work cut out, to be sure. The choice is do nothing or throw money at it. Voters (especially those obsessed by 'people coming over here') do not want to spend a single penny on this. That is why we spend little processing these people, and simply farm them to temporary accommodation (from which they abscond - my brothers; job is to find temporary accommodation for asylum seekers and this is what he tells me is happening - all due to a refusal of HMG to spend the necessary money).

So if Labour decide to do something they will have to spend money. Then the right will boo. BOO!

My view is that to 'stop the boats', this has to be done in France, from whence the boast emanate. To do this requires work done on the French coast, with lots of patrols, supplemented with lost of drones patrolling coasts where boats can feasibly leave. This requires co-operation with the French, and the spending of lots of British money. But it isn't impossible. In effect you 'shoo' the boats back to France before they have had a chance to enter 'neutral' or 'British' water.

There, that took me ten minutes to think up. I am sure Labour can do better when they get in. If I were them, though, I would offer no solutions publicly yet. Sunak is now so desperate he may simply steal them all.

Beyond all this more work should be done rebuilding relations with the French and the EU. How do the 'illegal' immigrants get into France in the first place? Where are they sheltering before they get on an 'illegal boat'? I get the impression France no longer bothers spending money to stop boats leaving. Certainly if Braverman were French president she would suggest it is 'not our problem'. This is all the toxic product of years of sabre rattling Brexiteering. We can't turn back that clock, but Labour must work with France and the EU if a solution is to be found.

So collaboration with France and spending money. If this halves the number of boats in a year, this will still be seized on as Failure by the right wing press, and not only that, a Waste of Money, so whatever labour do they will lose votes as a consequence. This is because the tories are not bothered about stopping the boats. This is because they have successfully weaponized 'illegal' immigration in their true war, the war against Labour. Judging by your attitude, the tories are winning this war.

Aside from all that, this should not detract from the fact that the current tories are utterly useless, some of them vile scum, and they need to be voted out.

UK to give France 480 million pounds to help stop small boat crossings

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said on Friday that Britain will give France 480 million pounds ($577 million) over three years to invest in police, technology and intelligence to help reduce the number of asylum seekers arriving on its shores in small boats.

www.reuters.com

France has already been given money to stop the boats & more on the way so not necessarily a plan. Virtually every country in Europe is struggling with the current influx of migrants & unfortunately are voting more for right wing politicians. What is maybe a solution is to help countries & the people who live in them become more prosperous so there is no need to come to Europe, the problem with that is it usually just boosts the bank balance of the rulers.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why would there be a need to put a stop to it? Especially if, as you suggest, it is impossible? Also, which lefty labour did you have in mind? An hour or so ago I read that Starmer is a traitor to the left, betraying Corbyn's committed opposition to all things Israel....

Labour will have their work cut out, to be sure. The choice is do nothing or throw money at it. Voters (especially those obsessed by 'people coming over here') do not want to spend a single penny on this. That is why we spend little processing these people, and simply farm them to temporary accommodation (from which they abscond - my brothers; job is to find temporary accommodation for asylum seekers and this is what he tells me is happening - all due to a refusal of HMG to spend the necessary money).

So if Labour decide to do something they will have to spend money. Then the right will boo. BOO!

My view is that to 'stop the boats', this has to be done in France, from whence the boast emanate. To do this requires work done on the French coast, with lots of patrols, supplemented with lost of drones patrolling coasts where boats can feasibly leave. This requires co-operation with the French, and the spending of lots of British money. But it isn't impossible. In effect you 'shoo' the boats back to France before they have had a chance to enter 'neutral' or 'British' water.

There, that took me ten minutes to think up. I am sure Labour can do better when they get in. If I were them, though, I would offer no solutions publicly yet. Sunak is now so desperate he may simply steal them all.

Beyond all this more work should be done rebuilding relations with the French and the EU. How do the 'illegal' immigrants get into France in the first place? Where are they sheltering before they get on an 'illegal boat'? I get the impression France no longer bothers spending money to stop boats leaving. Certainly if Braverman were French president she would suggest it is 'not our problem'. This is all the toxic product of years of sabre rattling Brexiteering. We can't turn back that clock, but Labour must work with France and the EU if a solution is to be found.

So collaboration with France and spending money. If this halves the number of boats in a year, this will still be seized on as Failure by the right wing press, and not only that, a Waste of Money, so whatever labour do they will lose votes as a consequence. This is because the tories are not bothered about stopping the boats. This is because they have successfully weaponized 'illegal' immigration in their true war, the war against Labour. Judging by your attitude, the tories are winning this war.

Aside from all that, this should not detract from the fact that the current tories are utterly useless, some of them vile scum, and they need to be voted out.

It’s almost as if the Tories manufactured the problem!
Of course, before we left the EU, we could return anyone crossing in a boat!

 

[beorhthelm]

Why would there be a need to put a stop to it? Especially if, as you suggest, it is impossible? Also, which lefty labour did you have in mind? An hour or so ago I read that Starmer is a traitor to the left, betraying Corbyn's committed opposition to all things Israel....

Labour will have their work cut out, to be sure. The choice is do nothing or throw money at it. Voters (especially those obsessed by 'people coming over here') do not want to spend a single penny on this. That is why we spend little processing these people, and simply farm them to temporary accommodation (from which they abscond - my brothers; job is to find temporary accommodation for asylum seekers and this is what he tells me is happening - all due to a refusal of HMG to spend the necessary money).

So if Labour decide to do something they will have to spend money. Then the right will boo. BOO!

My view is that to 'stop the boats', this has to be done in France, from whence the boast emanate. To do this requires work done on the French coast, with lots of patrols, supplemented with lost of drones patrolling coasts where boats can feasibly leave. This requires co-operation with the French, and the spending of lots of British money. But it isn't impossible. In effect you 'shoo' the boats back to France before they have had a chance to enter 'neutral' or 'British' water.

There, that took me ten minutes to think up. I am sure Labour can do better when they get in. If I were them, though, I would offer no solutions publicly yet. Sunak is now so desperate he may simply steal them all.

Beyond all this more work should be done rebuilding relations with the French and the EU. How do the 'illegal' immigrants get into France in the first place? Where are they sheltering before they get on an 'illegal boat'? I get the impression France no longer bothers spending money to stop boats leaving. Certainly if Braverman were French president she would suggest it is 'not our problem'. This is all the toxic product of years of sabre rattling Brexiteering. We can't turn back that clock, but Labour must work with France and the EU if a solution is to be found.

So collaboration with France and spending money. If this halves the number of boats in a year, this will still be seized on as Failure by the right wing press, and not only that, a Waste of Money, so whatever labour do they will lose votes as a consequence. This is because the tories are not bothered about stopping the boats. This is because they have successfully weaponized 'illegal' immigration in their true war, the war against Labour. Judging by your attitude, the tories are winning this war.

Aside from all that, this should not detract from the fact that the current tories are utterly useless, some of them vile scum, and they need to be voted out.

they abscond because of the temporary accomodation, how do they complete their claim?

the trouble with pushing this all back to France is eventually it becomes their problem, and they dont want to deal with it either. presumably they have to process, house everyone trying to get in a boat. or perhaps they just let them go to where ever they shelter before the attempt. only practical way to deal with the migrants seems to let them register their claim at calais and book them on the next ferry, then arrange accomondation, process claims swiftly - or just let them settle and be productive. either way, we still come back to this problem of where to house. and no matter where we try to house them, locals reject them being there while non-locals complain about them being here. politically being seen to give migrants a free ride is brave, even though thats the only way to manage them. at least we can stop the boats part, if not the actual migration.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

they abscond because of the temporary accomodation, how do they complete their claim?

the trouble with pushing this all back to France is eventually it becomes their problem, and they dont want to deal with it either. presumably they have to process, house everyone trying to get in a boat. or perhaps they just let them go to where ever they shelter before the attempt. only practical way to deal with the migrants seems to let them register their claim at calais and book them on the next ferry, then arrange accomondation, process claims swiftly - or just let them settle and be productive. either way, we still come back to this problem of where to house. and no matter where we try to house them, locals reject them being there while non-locals complain about them being here. politically being seen to give migrants a free ride is brave, even though thats the only way to manage them. at least we can stop the boats part, if not the actual migration.

Let’s just give up and let them die somewhere then.
Your whole post is full of them and they but ’they’ are human beings. Quite a few have fled war, and persecution.
The French already take in many more than we do, as does most of Europe.

 

[beorhthelm]

Let’s just give up and let them die somewhere then.
Your whole post is full of them and they but ’they’ are human beings. Quite a few have fled war, and persecution.
The French already take in many more than we do, as does most of Europe.

you need to re-read - i said let them in and find a solution how to accomodate them.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

you need to re-read - i said let them in and find a solution how to accomodate them.

The Home Office needs to do its job then, and process the claims.

 

[Jim in the West]

they abscond because of the temporary accomodation, how do they complete their claim?

the trouble with pushing this all back to France is eventually it becomes their problem, and they dont want to deal with it either. presumably they have to process, house everyone trying to get in a boat. or perhaps they just let them go to where ever they shelter before the attempt. only practical way to deal with the migrants seems to let them register their claim at calais and book them on the next ferry, then arrange accomondation, process claims swiftly - or just let them settle and be productive. either way, we still come back to this problem of where to house. and no matter where we try to house them, locals reject them being there while non-locals complain about them being here. politically being seen to give migrants a free ride is brave, even though thats the only way to manage them. at least we can stop the boats part, if not the actual migration.

The government has consistently refused to provide any safe routes* to the UK, and requires that asylum-seekers must claim asylum in the UK. This means that, automatically, almost every single refugee coming to the UK is "illegal". People have no choice but to get in a boat (they can't fly, because they need a visa to get on a plane, and the government won't issue visas for asylum-seekers). So - the solution is very simple, and is along the lines you suggest:

- Allow people to make an asylum claim BEFORE they get to the UK
- Process claims quickly
- Make it VERY VERY clear that people who have their claims rejected will not be permitted to stay
- Work closely with the EU (virtually everyone coming to the UK travels through multiple EU countries to get here....)

Over the past 5 or 6 years the government has effectively manufactured the "small boats" problem, and created the huge people-smuggling gangs that operate in Northern France. Brexit, of course, made things much worse (which was flagged up consistently during the EURef campaign, but ignored by many).

Whilst the problems of migration are huge, and are not going to disappear, this government's craven desire to politicise the issue has made it MUCH worse in the UK. The likes of Braverman and Jenrick (an equally appalling individual, who is still in post, as Immigration Minister) have much to answer for.

*nb: There are a few safe routes (eg: for Ukranians, Hong Kong nationals, and a few Afghans), but these are now irrelevant for 99.9% of people seeking to come to the UK.

 

[chickens]

The only way we’re going to stop refugees entirely, is to step in and involve ourselves in other nations domestic quarrels, going so far as enacting regime change where the incumbent government can’t be brought round to treating all its citizens fairly, even the ones they don’t like.

This would be shot down domestically and internationally as New Colonialism, and I think most of us would find this pretty horrific. Not to mention the fact we have a fairly threadbare armed forces which could not maintain operations across multiple conflicts easily.

The best realistically achievable solution for us, is (and I’m fully expecting a howl from those on the right for suggesting this) a significant increase in the international aid budget, intensive diplomacy by skilled diplomats, and a carrot and stick approach to international relations.

Do more trade with those nations with whom our values are most closely aligned, and the least with those who subject their populations to persecution. Similarly, international aid only goes to those nations who are making efforts to become more inclusive and secular, and less discriminatory.

Where aid is not reaching the people who need it, assign less resource in the next round and set strict goals that must have been met before aid levels could be increased again.

All of this is grown up politics, as such I’m not expecting it to be enacted by the Conservative Party, who are good at a three word slogan, but piss poor at running the country.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

they abscond because of the temporary accomodation, how do they complete their claim?

the trouble with pushing this all back to France is eventually it becomes their problem, and they dont want to deal with it either. presumably they have to process, house everyone trying to get in a boat. or perhaps they just let them go to where ever they shelter before the attempt. only practical way to deal with the migrants seems to let them register their claim at calais and book them on the next ferry, then arrange accomondation, process claims swiftly - or just let them settle and be productive. either way, we still come back to this problem of where to house. and no matter where we try to house them, locals reject them being there while non-locals complain about them being here. politically being seen to give migrants a free ride is brave, even though thats the only way to manage them. at least we can stop the boats part, if not the actual migration.

Very good post. My comments:

1. They don't complete their claim. They disappear (into the black economy one assumes).

2. That's a sensible suggestion. But it will cost money, and spending money 'on' asylum seekers is a toxic notion and a vote loser, apparently. It will take a great leader who can create a narrative and be prepared to lose votes to achieve this outcome. Not sure Starmer is that man. And even if the outcome is success, it will be eviscerated in the right wing media, and held up as 'weak', 'surrender' etc. Sunak cheerfully blamed labour for austerity at question time today, dodging in the minds of many, the question about how the tories have managed to f*** everything up.

Politics is the art of the possible and I am not sure the British people are prepared to see money spent resolving the asylum 'crisis', and are content to applaude each successive cockamamie attempt to 'stop the boats', while peeking through their net curtains to monitor the existential threat of 'other'.

 

[Zeberdi]

BoJo is suggesting a technical tweak to the law - He says the government has the power, under Schedule 3 of the Asylum and Immigration Act 2004, to ask Parliament to deem Rwanda a “safe country" and this should be done "immediately" - (sort of like when they renamed Windscale ‘Sellafield’ to make it ‘safe’ )

Sunak stating in PMQs he would change the law (presumably our obligation under the ECHR?) to revisit the Rwanda Plan.

Sunak giving live news conference at 16.45 hrs.

Worms wriggling around in a hot steaming compost heap, the lot of them.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

The past few weeks are the latest example that makes a mockery of the term United Kingdom. It's anything but – and doesn't look like it will be for a LONG time...

 

[Eric the meek]

Here is Chris Mason's concise account of today's news, prior to Sunak's statement at 16.45.

Chris Mason: Supreme Court ruling leaves Rwanda policy in tatters

Allies of former Home Secretary Suella Braverman say the Supreme Court's decision is damning for the PM.

www.bbc.co.uk