Stockdale

[Acker79]

Why do you think Rhodes didn't protest?

Bad attitude (not getting promoted, no danger of relegation so don't really care; more focused on the cup replay; personal problems off the pitch distracting him; not feeling particularly competitive that day; assuming there would be another chance later in the game)? Thinking the infringement was something else? Used to soft fouls being given in keeper's favours? Respect for the referees?

 

[El Presidente]

Bad attitude (not getting promoted, no danger of relegation so don't really care; more focused on the cup replay; personal problems off the pitch distracting him; not feeling particularly competitive that day; assuming there would be another chance later in the game)? Thinking the infringement was something else? Used to soft fouls being given in keeper's favours? Respect for the referees?

Or knowing it was a foul?

 

[Acker79]

Or knowing it was a foul?

Possibly. All I know is that the commentators had several looks at it and came to the conclusion the ref got that decision wrong.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Or knowing it was a foul?

Novel

 

[El Presidente]

Possibly. All I know is that the commentators had several looks at it and came to the conclusion the ref got that decision wrong.

If you need several looks then you can't have an incorrect decision for something of this nature, as the decision has to be made on the basis of one look.

It's not like deciding whether the ball went over the line or not, which is an objective assessment, it's a judgement call.

The Albion fans who were there yesterday thought it was a foul, the referee thought it was a foul, Rhodes' reaction after the event suggested he thought it was a foul.

We've kept two clean sheets in a week and people are still picking holes in the team. It's as if they would rather we lose to reinforce their views of individual players/management/Barber/Bloom and prove themselves 'right' than see the team win.

 

[El Presidente]

Novel

Hard Times by Charles Dickens, closely followed by 1984 by Orwell.

You?

 

[LamieRobertson]

Hard Times by Charles Dickens, closely followed by 1984 by Orwell.

You?

Estates, Class and Culture in Austerity Britain by Lisa McKenzie

Least thats what i am reading currently.

 

[LamieRobertson]

If you need several looks then you can't have an incorrect decision for something of this nature, as the decision has to be made on the basis of one look.

It's not like deciding whether the ball went over the line or not, which is an objective assessment, it's a judgement call.

The Albion fans who were there yesterday thought it was a foul, the referee thought it was a foul, Rhodes' reaction after the event suggested he thought it was a foul.

We've kept two clean sheets in a week and people are still picking holes in the team. It's as if they would rather we lose to reinforce their views of individual players/management/Barber/Bloom and prove themselves 'right' than see the team win.

So so true

 

[Stat Brother]

We've kept two clean sheets in a week and people are still picking holes in the team. It's as if they would rather we lose to reinforce their views of individual players/management/Barber/Bloom and prove themselves 'right' than see the team win.

Although sadly for us Albion fans, that has always been the case, even in the dark ages (pre-t'internet)

Alternatively not saying a word when things are going well, waiting/hoping for a screw up when miraculously they'll find time for NSC, again.

 

[chaileyjem]

8 clean sheets out of 17 under Hughton/Jones for Stockdale.

 

[Acker79]

If you need several looks then you can't have an incorrect decision for something of this nature, as the decision has to be made on the basis of one look.

It's not like deciding whether the ball went over the line or not, which is an objective assessment, it's a judgement call.

The Albion fans who were there yesterday thought it was a foul, the referee thought it was a foul, Rhodes' reaction after the event suggested he thought it was a foul.

I take it by this you will never ever ever disagree with a referee ever again? Would this also be an argument against video replay technology - if the ref has to look at it several times to know if it was/was not a foul, then obviously what the replay shows has to be ignored because that sounds like what you're saying?

Of course the decision of the referee are final, the laws are written as such that if in the referee's opinion it was a foul then technically it was a foul. That doesn't mean his interpretation is always right, and the rightness of the decision is not dictated by how many replays it needs to come to the 'right' decision. If you need to see three different angles to know whether it was a foul all it means is that it's more understandable if the ref got it wrong.

If replays show there was no foul, whether it took one look at a replay, or nine, then the ref was wrong (understandably so, even if it only took one replay). The rest (especially the brighton fans' opinion - how often does a teams fans, as a group, disagree with a referee decision in their favour?) is irrelevant.

We've kept two clean sheets in a week and people are still picking holes in the team. It's as if they would rather we lose to reinforce their views of individual players/management/Barber/Bloom and prove themselves 'right' than see the team win.

There are also fans who are so desperate to prove themselves better fans that they will put forward arguments to defend or praise a player that are as equally blinkered as the arguments put forward by those to criticise said player. In the same way that people were quick to bump the Barnes thread every time he scored, or the david lopez what does he do thread after his good performances, people are rushing to bump this thread every time he does well, and I suspect there are some fans who are just as excited by losses/failures to win as it gives them another opportunity to put themselves above all the fans analysing the game and highlighting where they think things went wrong, which players underperformed, etc.

Yes, Stockdale did well yesterday. I imagine even if the ref hadn't given the foul it would, like v Wolves, still be rightly argued as a good performance. But, according to the commentators, with the benefit of replays, that goal should not have been chalked off, and had it not been there would obviously have been no clean sheet.

To acknowledge such doesn't detract from his three great saves, and general good performance, but it does give a bit of balance and stops these posts sounding like a queue of people desperately trying to convince everyone that Stockdale is the greatest goalkeeper in the history of goalkeeping and anyone who points out a mistake he made doesn't know anything and are just desperate for us to lose because they love hating the team and they are just awful people who must be fishing trolls!!!!

 

[El Presidente]

I take it by this you will never ever ever disagree with a referee ever again? Would this also be an argument against video replay technology - if the ref has to look at it several times to know if it was/was not a foul, then obviously what the replay shows has to be ignored because that sounds like what you're saying?

Of course the decision of the referee are final, the laws are written as such that if in the referee's opinion it was a foul then technically it was a foul. That doesn't mean his interpretation is always right, and the rightness of the decision is not dictated by how many replays it needs to come to the 'right' decision. If you need to see three different angles to know whether it was a foul all it means is that it's more understandable if the ref got it wrong.

If replays show there was no foul, whether it took one look at a replay, or nine, then the ref was wrong (understandably so, even if it only took one replay). The rest (especially the brighton fans' opinion - how often does a teams fans, as a group, disagree with a referee decision in their favour?) is irrelevant.

Presumably that means the commentators opinion is irrelevant too?

There are also fans who are so desperate to prove themselves better fans that they will put forward arguments to defend or praise a player that are as equally blinkered as the arguments put forward by those to criticise said player. In the same way that people were quick to bump the Barnes thread every time he scored, or the david lopez what does he do thread after his good performances, people are rushing to bump this thread every time he does well, and I suspect there are some fans who are just as excited by losses/failures to win as it gives them another opportunity to put themselves above all the fans analysing the game and highlighting where they think things went wrong, which players underperformed, etc.

Yes, Stockdale did well yesterday. I imagine even if the ref hadn't given the foul it would, like v Wolves, still be rightly argued as a good performance. But, according to the commentators, with the benefit of replays, that goal should not have been chalked off, and had it not been there would obviously have been no clean sheet.

To acknowledge such doesn't detract from his three great saves, and general good performance, but it does give a bit of balance and stops these posts sounding like a queue of people desperately trying to convince everyone that Stockdale is the greatest goalkeeper in the history of goalkeeping and anyone who points out a mistake he made doesn't know anything and are just desperate for us to lose because they love hating the team and they are just awful people who must be fishing trolls!!!!

Who precisely has claimed that Stockdale is the greatest goalkeeper. He's had a 6/10 season in my opinion. Some good games, can be an excellent reaction shot stopper, however has made too many unforced errors, decision making is up and down, distribution has in the main been good.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Massive 3 points, with massive thanks to Stockdale.

Since Hughton has come in, Stockdale has massively improved. He's starting to look a top drawer championship keeper.

 

[LamieRobertson]

It makes a nice change for a thread to be pointing out a good performance as against the what seems like 'many' threads that get started should he make a mistake

 

[Finchley Seagull]

There are also fans who are so desperate to prove themselves better fans that they will put forward arguments to defend or praise a player that are as equally blinkered as the arguments put forward by those to criticise said player. In the same way that people were quick to bump the Barnes thread every time he scored, or the david lopez what does he do thread after his good performances, people are rushing to bump this thread every time he does well, and I suspect there are some fans who are just as excited by losses/failures to win as it gives them another opportunity to put themselves above all the fans analysing the game and highlighting where they think things went wrong, which players underperformed, etc.

I find this argument bizarre. We are supposed to support the team and the players who play for it. That's why we go to matches (or at least most of us do some might just go to slag off the team) so to say that people who stand up for players and defend them are as bad as those who criticise everything is a poor argument in my view. If you stand up for a player when they've been unfairly criticised, you have every right to go back and bump threads so people can see who slagged that player off. I honestly don't think that should happen if you're proved wrong when standing up for a player. As long as they give their all, they should be supported if picked (and we all know that most people on here who criticise players don't do it in a balanced way, they say they're the worst ever player or they hate them)

NSC (and to a degree your post) is why football is so much worst off for the Internet. In the past, people went to the pub after a match, moaned for a bit and then got on with their week. Now people spend their time moaning about players all the time on forums like this, apparently even if they haven't seen the incident.

Stockdale has got a lot of unfair stick. A few of us are saying he played very well yesterday and were there. You can't argue with that based on what the radio said. If you didn't see the incident then I don't think you can fairly comment as you're just commenting on someone else's opinion.

 

[R. Slicker]

According to the radio commentators the referee gets the assist on the clean sheet as their goal shouldn't have been disallowed because Stockdale wasn't fouled when he fumbled it. Had that stood this would be another wolves: 3 point keeping saves v 1 points costing error.

This is a problem on NSC. Too many posters are willing to slag off a player on the word of the radio commentary. You only have to look at any match day thread, where no one can actually see what's going on but still feel qualified to pick a players performance apart.

 

[Goldstone1976]

He's had a 6/10 season in my opinion. Some good games, can be an excellent reaction shot stopper, however has made too many unforced errors, decision making is up and down, distribution has in the main been good.

Yep, that's pretty much exactly how I see it too. He generally had a mare for the first 8-10 games, and I recall being seriously underwhelmed at that point. However, he's since had several games where he's been MoM or close to it - so for the season as a whole, 6/10 seems fair. If he keeps on like he currently is for next season, he could potentially have a 8/10 season, which would put him in the running for POTS.

 

[El Presidente]

Yep, that's pretty much exactly how I see it too. He generally had a mare for the first 8-10 games, and I recall being seriously underwhelmed at that point. However, he's since had several games where he's been MoM or close to it - so for the season as a whole, 6/10 seems fair. If he keeps on like he currently is for next season, he could potentially have a 8/10 season, which would put him in the running for POTS.

6/10 makes you WISHY-WASHY like me though.

 

[Acker79]

Presumably that means the commentators opinion is irrelevant too?

That doesn't work as an argument against me. I'm not the one who is claiming if you need to see an incident through video replay you can't question the ref. That's you. You have made this argument go:

Me: video replays show the ref got it wrong
you: if you need video replays the ref got it right
Me: if you take that position you can't ever question the referee yourself
you: oh but you can trust commentator's opinions?!

I'm not the one dismissing video evidence, you are. As I'm accepting video evidence, I am in a position to trust commentators opinion based on said evidence.

Who precisely has claimed that Stockdale is the greatest goalkeeper. He's had a 6/10 season in my opinion. Some good games, can be an excellent reaction shot stopper, however has made too many unforced errors, decision making is up and down, distribution has in the main been good.

As I don't look forward to us losing so I can criticise players, I assumed your point was to a wider discussion both on here and in person with other fans, and not specifically directed at me. As such I assumed you would realise I was doing the same, making a wider point.

I also assumed my language use would clearly indicate I wasn't directly quoting someone, more facetiously exaggerating the argument to make the point that some people go over the top in their praise in an effort to counter those that go over the top in their criticism, while grouping together any criticism that a player receives whether it is legitimate, reasoned criticism given as part of a balanced assessment, or whether it is Bensgrandad.

The recent run of posts were of that ilk, it did stop with "great performance" it immediately turned into sarcastic posts about ways to take credit away to make fun of anyone who has offered any criticism, which feeds into that attitude I was attempting to mock with the paragraph you quoted.

FWIW, I would generally agree with your appraisal of his season. But I'd give him 6.5, because I'm a better fan.

 

[8ace]

This is a problem on NSC. Too many posters are willing to slag off a player on the word of the radio commentary. You only have to look at any match day thread, where no one can actually see what's going on but still feel qualified to pick a players performance apart.

These opinions are pretty much worthless so are best ignored. Equally so positive posts such as "it sounded like we played well on the radio" or "we looked good in the (1 min) highlights (on South Today)".