[Politics] Starmer v Sunak *** Official Match Thread ***

[Bodian]

A few times early on, starmer appears to give way to the interruption and himself interrupted less. Second half his approach changed. This is the main cause of the disparity.

Starmer's style is generally to start his speech / question / response - then when the heckling / shouting over begins, he stands back and waits for it to be stopped by The Speaker, or to die down - then he carries on from where he was interrupted. This serves well at PMQ or parliamentary debates. But when he did the same the other night, his 45 seconds were up before he could get back to the point he was making.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It’s a very well KNOWN tradition for an outgoing government treasury department to always leave the traditional letter, left for an incoming new government treasury department exclaiming ‘There is no money left we spent it all’ It is NOT traditional to exclaim this and by doing so be uttering the truth……
One area where Labour differ from your possibly outgoing Tory Government !

Your? You mistake my disdain at many things Labour makes me a Tory supporter?

If I critisise our club, that doesnt make me a Palace fan!

I'm neither, though Ive voted both before

I'm sure you've voted both before, but you did vote for this current Tory Government in your efforts to get a 'no deal' Brexit, as you told us at length. So I think "your possibly outgoing Tory Government" is a quite reasonable statement in this case

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Starmer's style is generally to start his speech / question / response - then when the heckling / shouting over begins, he stands back and waits for it to be stopped by The Speaker, or to die down - then he carries on from where he was interrupted. This serves well at PMQ or parliamentary debates. But when he did the same the other night, his 45 seconds were up before he could get back to the point he was making.

That the ITV way.

I'm quite pleased he didn't play at yah-boo twattery to suit ITV and Sunk.

 

[peterward]

I'm sure you've voted both before, but you did vote for this current Tory Government in your efforts to get a 'no deal' Brexit, as you told us at length. So I think "your possibly outgoing Tory Government" is a quite reasonable statement in this case

Err no I didn't.

I did vote Tory as last GE primarily because of my perceived threat of Jeremy Corbyn.

You're obsession with turning absolutely everything into brexit knows no bounds.

 

[Napper]

Err no I didn't.

I did vote Tory as last GE because of my perceived threat of Jeremy Corbyn.

You're obsession with turning absolutely everything into brexit knows no bounds.

Well done for admitting .

Never trust them though . We learnt this many decades ago

Hopefully you are now educated

 

[peterward]

Well done for admitting .

Never trust them though . We learnt this many decades ago

Hopefully you are now educated

I think this Government has been ghastly. A total shambles, but I will openly admit that the prospect of Corbyn getting into power sent shudders through me, as always in the flawed fptp system its only one of 2 men who will be PM, and Corbyn not being that man was the over riding concern. Johnson being least worse.

In the same way Sunak not being that man is at this election with tactical voting.

The political party I am a member of has no chance of getting near power at this juncture, I wish they did, and theyd fair better under PR, until that day pragmatism reigns.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Err no I didn't.

I did vote Tory as last GE primarily because of my perceived threat of Jeremy Corbyn.

You're obsession with turning absolutely everything into brexit knows no bounds.

He wasn't referring to you I don't think

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think this Government has been ghastly. A total shambles, but I will openly admit that the prospect of Corbyn getting into power sent shudders through me, as always in the flawed fptp system its only one of 2 men who will be PM, and Corbyn not being that man was the over riding concern. Johnson being least worse.

In the same way Sunak not being that man is at this election with tactical voting.

The political party I am a member of has no chance of getting near power at this juncture, I wish they did, and theyd fair better under PR, until that day pragmatism reigns.

Well I don't support the party you support, so I don't support PR.

That's how it works. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, and butchers don't vote for veganism.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think this Government has been ghastly. A total shambles, but I will openly admit that the prospect of Corbyn getting into power sent shudders through me, as always in the flawed fptp system its only one of 2 men who will be PM, and Corbyn not being that man was the over riding concern. Johnson being least worse.

In the same way Sunak not being that man is at this election with tactical voting.

The political party I am a member of has no chance of getting near power at this juncture, I wish they did, and theyd fair better under PR, until that day pragmatism reigns.

Well they might get Clacton this time or he might make it 8 failed attempts, but on the bright side at least there's no dolphin

 

[peterward]

Well they might get Clacton this time or he might make it 8 failed attempts, but on the bright side at least there's no dolphin

Reform? Deary me.

Trump lite, Enoch Powell loving Farage?. I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire, certainly wouldn't join his party of populist nonsense.

Domestically no less worse than Corbyn just a lot better orator and has some charisma.

 

[peterward]

Well I don't support the party you support, so I don't support PR.

That's how it works. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas, and butchers don't vote for veganism.

Of course, neither Labour or Tory would allow PR and now Labour already have in place more gerrymandering plans to ensure they're in forever. Bravo

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Of course, neither Labour or Tory would allow PR and now Labour already have in place more gerrymandering plans to ensure they're in forever. Bravo

Is that a fact. Given that the boundary commission determines these things and have traditionally somehow managed to arrange changes in a manner that appears to suit the conservatives, I will have to doff my hat to the swift, decisive prescience of Sir Kier and chums. Like Heineken, they appear to be able to refresh parts of the political rubric that other parties cannot reach. Bravo indeed. Sir Heinekeir Starmer, I salute you

 

[Bodian]

Of course, neither Labour or Tory would allow PR and now Labour already have in place more gerrymandering plans to ensure they're in forever. Bravo

The recent boundary changes, if in place in 2019, would have resulted in a majority 14 higher for the Tories.

What plans are you referring to, is this some further changes not yet published?

 

[peterward]

Is that a fact. Given that the boundary commission determines these things and have traditionally somehow managed to arrange changes in a manner that appears to suit the conservatives, I will have to doff my hat to the swift, decisive prescience of Sir Kier and chums. Like Heineken, they appear to be able to refresh parts of the political rubric that other parties cannot reach. Bravo indeed. Sir Heinekeir Starmer, I salute you

Was the 16, 17 yo old vote unilaterally decided by Labour I was referring too..... as for boundary change, I live right on corner of boundary and noticed I've now been redrawn into different seat, both current conservative, both over 80% likely going Labour on July 4th.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Was the 16, 17 yo old vote unilaterally decided by Labour I was referring too..... as for boundary change, I live right on corner of boundary and noticed I've now been redrawn into different seat, both current conservative, both over 80% likely going Labour on July 4th.

Ah, I see. That's not gerrymandering* though is it? In any case I would imagine that lots of 16 and 17 year olds are drawn to the Greens in particular. I am neutral about it but would prefer that all potential voters pass a competence test before being invited to join the franchise (I have droned on about this before; we don't hand out driving licenses just because a kid turns 16 (or 17 or any age)).

*"political manipulation of electoral district boundaries with the intent to create undue advantage for a party, group, or socioeconomic class within the constituency"

 

[Bodian]

Was the 16, 17 yo old vote unilaterally decided by Labour I was referring too..... as for boundary change, I live right on corner of boundary and noticed I've now been redrawn into different seat, both current conservative, both over 80% likely going Labour on July 4th.

Ah - that's a different thing! Gerrymandering is specifically about the political manipulation of boundaries.

Yes - I agree, giving the vote to 16/17 year olds is likely to benefit non-tory voters. Although it may actually benefit green / lib dem more than Labour.

With regard to your own constituency - this is a useful map to see what it would have been in 2019. The fact they are probably going Labour in 2024 may not be to do with redrawing the boundaries https://www.theguardian.com/politic...election-2024-boundary-changes-votes-postcode

 

[WATFORD zero]

I think this Government has been ghastly. A total shambles, but I will openly admit that the prospect of Corbyn getting into power sent shudders through me, as always in the flawed fptp system its only one of 2 men who will be PM, and Corbyn not being that man was the over riding concern. Johnson being least worse.

In the same way Sunak not being that man is at this election with tactical voting.

The political party I am a member of has no chance of getting near power at this juncture, I wish they did, and theyd fair better under PR, until that day pragmatism reigns.

Now you've got me wondering. You don't like Labour or Conservatives, you thought Corbyn was so left wing that he forced you to vote for Johnson and his cabal, both the Lib/Dems and Greens would rejoin the EU, the complete opposite to the Brexit no deal that you have always wanted and it's not Reform.

I'm trying to think of another party that would gain from PR

 

[Bodian]

Now you've got me wondering. You don't like Labour or Conservatives, you thought Corbyn was so left wing that he forced you to vote for Johnson and his cabal, both the Lib/Dems and Greens would rejoin the EU, the complete opposite to the Brexit no deal that you have always wanted and it's not Reform.

I'm trying to think of another party that would gain from PR

Monster Raving Loony Party?