[Politics] Starmer v Sunak *** Official Match Thread ***

[ROSM]

Where is your source with this? (It accords with my experience of the debate, but we always ought to be sceptical of our experiences of such things.) If your source is robust, then at the very least Etchingham should never be able to chair such a thing again, if not ITV should be disqualified from hosting such debates. I'm not sure these debates actually add much to our understanding of the (two) main parties.

It's a media monitoring agency. I too am concerned about supporting bias and am having it rechecked but will share when done.

It covers uninterrupted speech
Talking over
Interruption

A few times early on, starmer appears to give way to the interruption and himself interrupted less. Second half his approach changed. This is the main cause of the disparity.

I think Etchingham was set up to fail by the format

 

[Flounce]

It's a media monitoring agency. I too am concerned about supporting bias and am having it rechecked but will share when done.

It covers uninterrupted speech
Talking over
Interruption

A few times early on, starmer appears to give way to the interruption and himself interrupted less. Second half his approach changed. This is the main cause of the disparity.

I think Etchingham was set up to fail by the format

Best solution would be to put both of them in soundproofed glass booths alongside each other and switch the microphone off, but leave the speaker in the booth on, after the allotted time or close to it to allow a sentence to finish. Would also be amusing to watch the reactions of the participants having to listen without having the ability to interrupt.

 

[ROSM]

I understand ITV are stunned by the criticism they are getting especially as it's coming from 'their own' I.e. other news journalists and producers.

Rob Burley (ex of bbc and sky) who produced andrew marr/Sophie raworth on sunday, and daily/Sunday politics shows has been vocal as has andrew neil, jon sopel, maitlis, amal rajan etc internally there has been some self assessment.

Nothing will be said publicly but this is a long long way from the election debates commission in US or france where rules are set and standard. Sadly some broadcasters are looking to gamify it

 

[A1X]

I understand ITV are stunned by the criticism they are getting especially as it's coming from 'their own' I.e. other news journalists and producers.

Rob Burley (ex of bbc and sky) who produced andrew marr/Sophie raworth on sunday, and daily/Sunday politics shows has been vocal as has andrew neil, jon sopel, maitlis, amal rajan etc internally there has been some self assessment.

Nothing will be said publicly but this is a long long way from the election debates commission in US or france where rules are set and standard. Sadly some broadcasters are looking to gamify it

Last night they talked to Adam Boulton on Sky News, who moderated one of the debates back in 2010, and him reminding us of what the debates then (the first time they did it) was amazing compared to Tuesday night's show.

They had three 90 minute debates, with no advert breaks, between the three of them (Brown, Cameron, Clegg) and over the course of 90 minutes they got through 8 questions. This allowed each one to breathe and have a proper debate on it. 11 minutes vs 45 seconds. Simulcast across all three channels with one company chairing each (Alastair Stewart, Adam Boulton and David Dimbleby).

 

[KZNSeagull]

The public want to get away from soundbite politics so ITV decides to give them no choice but to talk in soundbites. Pathetic really.
The rest is politics was talking about trying to set up a 3 hour debate between Sunak and Starmer moderated by Campbell and Stewart possibly with questions coming from ex PMs. That would be worth watching/listening to but I would be amazed if they managed to pull it off.

 

[beorhthelm]

The public want to get away from soundbite politics so ITV decides to give them no choice but to talk in soundbites. Pathetic really.
The rest is politics was talking about trying to set up a 3 hour debate between Sunak and Starmer moderated by Campbell and Stewart possibly with questions coming from ex PMs. That would be worth watching/listening to but I would be amazed if they managed to pull it off.

i'd like to see in the style of the old 60-70's debate programmes. seated with a large G&T, ruminating the ideological virtues of their policies and why they are better than alternatives.

i realise this might be a stretch, exposing loose basis for most ideas.

 

[rippleman]

Where is your source with this? (It accords with my experience of the debate, but we always ought to be sceptical of our experiences of such things.) If your source is robust, then at the very least Etchingham should never be able to chair such a thing again, if not ITV should be disqualified from hosting such debates. I'm not sure these debates actually add much to our understanding of the (two) main parties.

I haven't looked at the stats but my impression watching it live was that Etchingham was allowing Sunak longer to utter his lies and allowing him to shout over Starmer when it was his turn. She certainly seemed to have a significant bias, (even if unconcious), towards Sunak.

The questions were too long and much too complex to expect either of them to give a response in 45 seconds. That was just plain daft.

IMO ITV made a complete breakfast of it. If Etchingham couldn't control Sunak, good luck to whoever the moderator is for tomorrows event with seven of them all shouting at each other. But it's the Beeb's go to host tomorrow and I'm sure they will have found someone much better than Etchingham. I'll be giving it a miss.

 

[Machiavelli]

The public want to get away from soundbite politics so ITV decides to give them no choice but to talk in soundbites. Pathetic really.
The rest is politics was talking about trying to set up a 3 hour debate between Sunak and Starmer moderated by Campbell and Stewart possibly with questions coming from ex PMs. That would be worth watching/listening to but I would be amazed if they managed to pull it off.

I'm not a fan of the Rest is Politics -- more dull extremism of the centre -- but that's a really good idea for a format.

 

[Is it PotG?]

If I hear about Starmers dad being a toolmaker one more time I shall put my foot through the TV.

 

[Hugo Rune]

This debate will become the moment in history where Starmer initiated Sunak’s political suicide by holding back the detail (treasury letter) giving Sunak the rope to hang himself.

He didn’t need the rope though did he having taken a WW2 revolver to his head and blown his future political career to oblivion.

You must be in bits.

Sympathies hun xxx

 

[pb21]

It is a bit annoying, but it's hardly the case that Sunak never mentions the fact his parents worked for/in the NHS, he shoehorns it in at every possible opportunity too

 

[Is it PotG?]

It is a bit annoying, but it's hardly the case that Sunak never mentions the fact his parents worked for/in the NHS, he shoehorns it in at every possible opportunity too

Indeed, they're so alike. All the flippin' same.

As was mentioned when that Labour MP got a roasting on QT about the abysmal record in Wales over the past 25 years AND the fact they were backing Gething. There's not a fag paper between their 'policies'.

 

[A1X]

Worth noting that in their analysis of the debate with voters, many who don’t pay attention to politics regularly hadn’t heard it before and liked it according to The Sun.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Worth noting that in their analysis of the debate with voters, many who don’t pay attention to politics regularly hadn’t heard it before and liked it according to The Sun.

I wasn't aware that you took The Sun.

 

[A1X]

I wasn't aware that you took The Sun.

Cheaper than bog roll

 

[WATFORD zero]

I wasn't aware that you took The Sun.

I don't think we have time to go through the things you are not aware of, I'm going out to dinner Sunday

 

[Is it PotG?]

I don't think we have time to go through the things you are not aware of, I'm going out to dinner Sunday

Don't forget to ask for the colouring book.

 

[pb21]

Indeed, they're so alike. All the flippin' same.

As was mentioned when that Labour MP got a roasting on QT about the abysmal record in Wales over the past 25 years AND the fact they were backing Gething. There's not a fag paper between their 'policies'.

I saw that too, and I kind of agreed with the comment. I think policies are, to a certian extent, constrianed by factors outside the control of the parties (at least in the short-term), and that they are both trying to appeal to the same people in the centre ground, where electiosn are won.

 

[golddene]

Coffers empty? "Sorry there's no money left" lest we forget!

Here's one, there's many if you remove the red tinted glasses and actually bother to look!

What Is Keir Starmer's New Position On Transgender Self-ID?

Labour's leader wants to avoid a culture war, but might not have much choice.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

It’s a very well KNOWN tradition for an outgoing government treasury department to always leave the traditional letter, left for an incoming new government treasury department exclaiming ‘There is no money left we spent it all’ It is NOT traditional to exclaim this and by doing so be uttering the truth……
One area where Labour differ from your possibly outgoing Tory Government !

 

[peterward]

It’s a very well KNOWN tradition for an outgoing government treasury department to always leave the traditional letter, left for an incoming new government treasury department exclaiming ‘There is no money left we spent it all’ It is NOT traditional to exclaim this and by doing so be uttering the truth……
One area where Labour differ from your possibly outgoing Tory Government !

Your? You mistake my disdain at many things Labour makes me a Tory supporter?

If I critisise our club, that doesnt make me a Palace fan!

I'm neither, though Ive voted both before