[Albion] ST revoked for touting Arsenal game? Now with PB response (post #306)

[Bold Seagull]

I see the approach as prompting long term supporters having to give up their season tickets so that these PL fans can get a season ticket. For example no chance of keeping your kids season ticket active when they go to Uni because you'll get banned if someone else uses the ticket when they cant go. No chance of keeping your season ticket when your job will take you away for 6 months or you have to work Saturdays for a period.

Not sure that is what is being said? What is being said is that if you advertise that ticket, or advertise it for any renumeration, then the club are clamping down. Passing your ticket to a mate or family where you haven't advertised, they are an assumed friend of the ST holder, the ST holder is taking responsibility for that person, they basically won't know either, and really aren't that bothered it would seem.

If you are a long term supporter of the club, with presumably some network of friends, family etc. that all support the Albion, I don't really see why you would be advertising to the general public to sell on your ST for a game?

No way I would do it as I wouldn't really give the responsibility of my match day seat to someone I couldn't trust.

 

[Weststander]

Perhaps because I know people who support other clubs. Even our own club did not stop us exchanging tickets between us until recently.

Does something make you think that others don’t tolerate this? I asked earlier in the thread and nobody offered any evidence of it elsewhere.

Liverpool clamping down with private investigators catching the secondary ticket sellers:
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/live...amp-down-on-ticket-touts-says-ceo-peter-moore

Man Utd the same and they issue 3 year bans to those caught:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...r-United-create-new-job-war-ticket-touts.html

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Maybe each away game or home sell out someone just needs to start a thread like....
Feeling sick
Really gutted I've come down with the flu and can't make it on Saturday. Such a shame I was so looking forward to the match.
If you would like to send me a message of sympathy please PM me. Thanks.

 

[nigeyb]

I see the approach as prompting long term supporters having to give up their season tickets so that these PL fans can get a season ticket. For example no chance of keeping your kids season ticket active when they go to Uni because you'll get banned if someone else uses the ticket when they cant go. No chance of keeping your season ticket when your job will take you away for 6 months or you have to work Saturdays for a period. Therefore you have to lose out long term to PL only supporters (or at least for the duration that we are in the PL for). It doesn't affect me but it seems unreasonable and easily dealt with by common sense. Target touts making money - deal with them firmly. Speak to those long term supporters found passing tickets on and most importantly set up a functioning ticket exchange and avoid directing people to actions that could lead them to falling out of love with the club.

It surely isn't that difficult.

Surely a waiting list is just that - a waiting list. If you joined the list in March 2018, you have to wait longer than someone who joined in April 2017, so not sure how BHAFC can be accused of rewarding newer fans.

I seriously doubt any Prem or Championship club allows supporters to put their STs "on hold" for months or years. You say, it surely isn't that difficult. Well, yes, it would be very hard to administrate, would result in loads more moaning about the rules, and for what? Like it or not, professional clubs are a business, and whilst they can't take the piss with loyalty, they also have absolutely no incentive to bend over backwards to accommodate supporters who want to mess around for weeks, months or years.

Plus, just supposing the club allowed a supporter to take a ST "holiday" for, say, up to two seasons what happens to the person who has bought the season ticket when the holiday has elapsed? They have to lose their ST? They go back to the end of the waiting list.

I don't think you've thought this through.

 

[nigeyb]

Not sure that is what is being said? What is being said is that if you advertise that ticket, or advertise it for any renumeration, then the club are clamping down. Passing your ticket to a mate or family where you haven't advertised, they are an assumed friend of the ST holder, the ST holder is taking responsibility for that person, they basically won't know either, and really aren't that bothered it would seem.

If you are a long term supporter of the club, with presumably some network of friends, family etc. that all support the Albion, I don't really see why you would be advertising to the general public to sell on your ST for a game?

No way I would do it as I wouldn't really give the responsibility of my match day seat to someone I couldn't trust.

100% this.

Some supporters on here find something to moan about no matter what.

Touting is illegal - the club is obliged to try to stamp it out. Plus it is morally wrong.

Letting a trusted mate use your ST is clearly going to go under the radar and is not something that the club will bother with (unless trusted mate behaves badly).

 

[Horses Arse]

100% this.

Some supporters on here find something to moan about no matter what.

Touting is illegal - the club is obliged to try to stamp it out. Plus it is morally wrong.

Letting a trusted mate use your ST is clearly going to go under the radar and is not something that the club will bother with (unless trusted mate behaves badly).

Interesting to see what the views are if the mate receiving a ticket or the family member using a ticket is caught up in all this. I see that as being the next natural step, you and others seem to think that everyone affected to date is a money making tout. That doesn't seem to be the case based on this thread.

All very easily overcome by implementing an effective ticket exchange given the current demand. But clearly I'm not thinking that through and am just keen to moan. I'll take a long hard look at myself you can rest assured.

 

[Horses Arse]

I think that a lot of the angst around this topic from reasonable fans would disappear if the club did two things:

1) introduce a functioning, official, automatic ticket exchange, which gave a fair return to the fan (something like the Arsenal one that was linked earlier). This would prevent LP harvesting and the chance of home tickets ending up with away fans, and would minimise the availability of tickets going to touts.

2) state what constitutes “sold out”. My sense, from observing when the existing exchenge has gone live for previous games, is that the bar is currently set too high. For an exchange to work, sellers need sufficient time to upload their tickets and buyers need time to buy them.

I think that the club have cracked down on unofficial exchanges (such as NSC) a bit too early. I support the direction the club is going (stop touting, stop LP harvesting etc), but I do think it’s incumbent on them to have a fit for purpose official replacement. The current one simply isn’t.

We, as fans, should also recognise that there are some folk who hold tickets and even STs who won’t play fair, no matter what system the club puts in place - some will seek to profiteer. Those should be extended no sympathy, and the club would be doing everyone a service if they were banned.

Difficult to argue with any of that. Stop being so sensible.

 

[Tomdibble]

I suppose the difference is giving Vs touting. I'm really opposed to touts they shouldn't be anywhere near the ground . I'm not a season ticket holder , but if someone can't go for whatever reason , weddings , kids , birthdays etc should there be a way that fans can opt to share the ticket on a portal so that they get a little bit of the cash back ( face value ) and another fan can go instead . Maybe if it was capped at a maximum of three per season ? This system works well in the US at ice hockey games . Or am I speaking the unspeakable here . Surely the club want bums on seats one way or the other ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Club's been curiously silent on this core issue. All they have to do is hold their hands up, acknowledge the current ticket exchange arrangements are not fit for purpose and say something along the lines of "Please bear with us. We'll ensure we have a PL Ready ticket exchange in place for the start of next season. Whether we're in the PL or whether we aren't. We owe it to the 30,000 in the stadium, and the however many thousands would dearly love to be."

 

[nigeyb]

Interesting to see what the views are if the mate receiving a ticket or the family member using a ticket is caught up in all this. I see that as being the next natural step, you and others seem to think that everyone affected to date is a money making tout. That doesn't seem to be the case based on this thread.

All very easily overcome by implementing an effective ticket exchange given the current demand. But clearly I'm not thinking that through and am just keen to moan. I'll take a long hard look at myself you can rest assured.

I agree that an official BHAFC Ticket Exchange Scheme would be a good step forward - but probably not top of the club's To Do List.

Your other suggestions (e.g ST holidays, messing around with waiting lists) are what IMO you have not thought through.

I cannot really see how trusted mate would ever get "caught up in all this" unless, as previously stated, trusted mate behaves badly. Hard to imagine ID checks or photo ID cards coming any time soon - or am I missing something here?

I don't think anyone who does not have a network of Albion supporting trusted mates is automatically a tout BUT, if that person advertises their ticket/ST on the open market, what they are doing is illegal and could be construed as touting. Simple solution: don't advertise ticket. If you don't have trusted BHAFC supporting mates then, perhaps, try talking to a few people who sit near you at the ground and make some new friends. Worst case scenario, take the financial hit.

 

[sully]

Are you one of those whose ST has been revoked until next season for touting Arsenal game?

If I'm reading this page correctly then any unauthorised football ticket sales are illegal in the UK which suggest Sully's claim is complete bollocks...



From Ticket touting and football

This means the legislation in place to deal with ticket touting in football applies to all games played within England, all games that English sides may be involved in, and all games the Welsh and English national teams will be involved in, including World Cup and European Championships qualifying matches and international friendly matches.

How do I know if the ticket I purchase is authorised?

If you purchase a ticket from someone outside a football ground, it should be clear they are not an authorised seller of the ticket. Tickets sold over the internet are more problematic as sometimes clubs will sell through authorised agents. The only way really to guarantee you have an authorised ticket is if you purchase it directly from the club or through their official website.

So it appears the club is enforcing the law - anyone selling on a ticket is breaking the law even if you sell it below face value

You missed my point, which was that no other club seems to be hounding it’s season ticket holders and members like ours is. I wish I could see how they think this is benefitting anyone, let alone themselves.

I think we’ve all been aware that the practice is illegal, but just like driving at 75 on a motorway, nobody’s bothered.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I agree that an official BHAFC Ticket Exchange Scheme would be a good step forward - but probably not top of the club's To Do List.

Yeah... but they found time to put in place an online system allowing folk to swap their seat on a game by game basis. Something that I don’t recall a single person saying they wanted.

Of course - that system is a revenue generator (if people use it), whereas a ticket exchange potentially reduces revenue (if they set the “sold out” level too low). I suspect that a 10% admin fee levied on ticket transfers would generate more revenue than the seat swap system though...

 

[sully]

I think Drew has answered your point above.

But, just to be clear, your original claim that...

you can’t advertise a ticket bought from the Albion, but it’s ok if you support any other club in the country.

...is not based on knowledge about every other club in the country but based on anecdotal knowledge of people you know "who support other clubs". Given it's illegal for supporters to sell tickets on then it's seems pretty clear that most clubs are obliged to take the issue seriously. As others have said, most clubs are unlikely to be bothered about informal arrangements between friends to let others have their ticket or ST, but that's completely different to advertising tickets on the open market. Remember, this all came to a head because it was clear that significant numbers of Arsenal fans were in the home areas. That's also an issue for our club, as it would be for any other club. We know this increases the chance of crowd trouble, as well as being potentially annoying or unpleasant for nearby supporters.

I'm really baffled why this is such a big issue for some supporters.

It had nothing to do with the Arsenal game. This hardly started last weekend, did it?

I’m really baffled that so many people think it’s fine that the club are so heavy handed with supporters who are losing money on tickets they can’t use and are trying to minimise the impact. Full houses actually mean the club have already got their money and have nothing more to sell so are actually wasting their own money by not being more targeted in their actions.

 

[Nitram]

It had nothing to do with the Arsenal game. This hardly started last weekend, did it?

I’m really baffled that so many people think it’s fine that the club are so heavy handed with supporters who are losing money on tickets they can’t use and are trying to minimise the impact. Full houses actually mean the club have already got their money and have nothing more to sell so are actually wasting their own money by not being more targeted in their actions.

I really don't get this entitlement argument about getting money back for non attendance. You buy a ticket for a season not an individual game. Why should you be entitled to get your money back if you don't turn up?

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Liverpool clamping down with private investigators catching the secondary ticket sellers:
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/live...amp-down-on-ticket-touts-says-ceo-peter-moore

Man Utd the same and they issue 3 year bans to those caught:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...r-United-create-new-job-war-ticket-touts.html

I know someone who bought two tickets for our game at Old Trafford Off an Internet site
Tickets delivered on time as promised (someone’s season ticket)
Had a phone call saying any problem getting in then ring them as they are attending and if asked to say the tickets were a gift from some relatives who couldn’t make the game
Tickets were for seats bang on the halfway line in the Alex Ferguson Stand
Very professional and he wouldn’t be afraid to use them again if required

 

[sully]

Liverpool clamping down with private investigators catching the secondary ticket sellers:
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/live...amp-down-on-ticket-touts-says-ceo-peter-moore

Man Utd the same and they issue 3 year bans to those caught:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...r-United-create-new-job-war-ticket-touts.html

Both those refer to people selling for profit.

I think we all agree that this should be stopped.

 

[sully]

I really don't get this entitlement argument about getting money back for non attendance. You buy a ticket for a season not an individual game. Why should you be entitled to get your money back if you don't turn up?

Perhaps as an incentive to get someone else to go?

I have sometimes given a ticket away, but I certainly haven’t been incentivised to go through the Survey Monkey system in order to do so.

It’s about filling the stadium. If we can’t even give unused tickets to others (which I think is the actual legal position) then the number of empty seats will only increase until the club provide a working method of passing unused tickets on.

Not many people can have a season ticket year after year without something clashing with a fixture at some point or even being ill on match day.

 

[Springal]

I really don't get this entitlement argument about getting money back for non attendance. You buy a ticket for a season not an individual game. Why should you be entitled to get your money back if you don't turn up?

Why should the club make twice the money on a seat if someone cannot go ?

 

[drew]

Yes, certainly some assumptions but viewing the thread those assumptions have some justification I feel. Yes, I do believe that there needs to be recognition of supporters from the Withdean era and beyond even if done informally. There were more than 7k actively supporting the club at Withdean - maybe not die hards going to every home game but supporters that went both home and away through the Gills/Withdean eras. Those season ticket holders in the championship surely need to be recognised also. We've got over 4k on the waiting list I believe purely as a result of us getting promoted - there wasn't such a list before. Why reward those people at the expense of those interested outside the PL?

I see the approach as prompting long term supporters having to give up their season tickets so that these PL fans can get a season ticket. For example no chance of keeping your kids season ticket active when they go to Uni because you'll get banned if someone else uses the ticket when they cant go. No chance of keeping your season ticket when your job will take you away for 6 months or you have to work Saturdays for a period. Therefore you have to lose out long term to PL only supporters (or at least for the duration that we are in the PL for). It doesn't affect me but it seems unreasonable and easily dealt with by common sense. Target touts making money - deal with them firmly. Speak to those long term supporters found passing tickets on and most importantly set up a functioning ticket exchange and avoid directing people to actions that could lead them to falling out of love with the club.

It surely isn't that difficult.

Sorry but the points you raise in the second paragraph are pretty much life! The first sentence is ridiculous. No one is forcing long term fans to give up their tickets for the benefit of the so called new PL fans. If you give up your ticket because your circumstances change well I'm afraid that's life, in other words it's a bit tough. You make choices. Those that have lost their season tickets as per the subject of this thread have done so not because they broke the rules but because they flagrantly broke them, ie advertised!

You seem to suggest the so called PL fans are getting preferential treatment whereas I don't see that. Long term fans, both home and away have the advantage of the loyalty point scheme, new PL fans won't have anywhere near enough to get to away games. We only had about 5k regular fans at Withdean so where did the other 22k come from? We know from day one at the Amex we got about 17k new fans and and that progressed towards the 27k we now have. Let's be honest, those last two years in the championship were good enough to attract new fans alone. I doubt there are many new season ticket holders who were actually able to sign up since we got promoted.

Also, if those Withdean fans were not 'die hards' why should they get preferential treatment!

You say the club should speak to those long term supporters passing tickets on. Why? The club aren't worried about that situation, they are only concerned with those that are getting money for passing tickets on. Probably the only thing in your post I agree with is about the ticket exchange.

 

[Horses Arse]

Sorry but the points you raise in the second paragraph are pretty much life! The first sentence is ridiculous. No one is forcing long term fans to give up their tickets for the benefit of the so called new PL fans. If you give up your ticket because your circumstances change well I'm afraid that's life, in other words it's a bit tough. You make choices. Those that have lost their season tickets as per the subject of this thread have done so not because they broke the rules but because they flagrantly broke them, ie advertised!

You seem to suggest the so called PL fans are getting preferential treatment whereas I don't see that. Long term fans, both home and away have the advantage of the loyalty point scheme, new PL fans won't have anywhere near enough to get to away games. We only had about 5k regular fans at Withdean so where did the other 22k come from? We know from day one at the Amex we got about 17k new fans and and that progressed towards the 27k we now have. Let's be honest, those last two years in the championship were good enough to attract new fans alone. I doubt there are many new season ticket holders who were actually able to sign up since we got promoted.

Also, if those Withdean fans were not 'die hards' why should they get preferential treatment!

You say the club should speak to those long term supporters passing tickets on. Why? The club aren't worried about that situation, they are only concerned with those that are getting money for passing tickets on. Probably the only thing in your post I agree with is about the ticket exchange.

No need to apologise.

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