[Help] Sparky Help

[Dorset Seagull]

Does it look like there is room in the house fuse board to fit more mcb / fuses ?
If not I’d reckon they ve just doubled the ccts up From what you ve described
Rather than fit either a biggerDB or an expansion chamber to fit its own fuse for the garage DB
Upstairs sockets are likely to be minimal load probably why they picked that mcb/ fuse

No there isnt any room

 

[Weststander]

View attachment 130048

Not sure how far you are from Swanage, this van went past me when I was there last week.

They’re old codgers, a bunch of dinosaurs.

 

[BN9 BHA]

They’re old codgers, a bunch of dinosaurs.

 

[Granny on the wing]

Anyone able to help with this. I have a double garage about 10m from the house. The electricity to the garage is fed from the home but has its own fusebox with a separate fuse for both the switches and the lighting. Recently I have had a few instances of the electricity blowing in the garage with the result that the fuse in the house for the upstairs plug points has blown. I recently changed the 2 standard bulb lights in the garage to florescent but assume that cant be responsible for it knocking out the wall switches??

Today after I had put the running machine on in the garage there was a loud bang and the garage fused and again in the house the upstairs plug points fuse had blown. The only things plugged into the double socket in the garage are a fridge freezer and an extension lead I use to plug in 2 golf cart batteries. I thought perhaps all along it could have been the extension lead that might be the problem so changed it to a different one today and all is working ok again including the treadmill which is plugged into the extension as I have removed golf cart batteries. Didn't have the bottle to try the original one again in case it was a problem.

I will be getting a professional to check it out but in the meantime here are a few questions:

Is the electricity from the house to garage coming from the circuit that controls the upstairs plug points as this is the one that blows?

Is there any chance that my changing of the lights in the garage (The types of fitting or a possible electricity bodge by me! ) could be responsible even though it is the plug point circuit in the house that fuses?

Am I right in thinking that it may not be a faulty extension lead as presumably when everything blew a few weeks ago that extension lead fuse would have blown so wouldn't have worked after that?

Any assistance would be appreciated

Did it go bang when you switched the lights on ? Did you find the Switch wire when changing Light Fittings ?

 

[moggy]

[SUB][/SUB]

Garage doesn't have its own breaker on the house fusebox which was fitted professionally about 5 years ago. Cant see any cables coming into the house fusebox as they enter through the ceiling. The garage box is 25 years old and the house was a new build so would Have been professionally fitted. The outside box does have separate breakers for lights and power.

Upload some pics and I can take a look

 

[maresfield seagull]

[Moggy it’s DP In coming switch On both DB s Proteus and Eaton Mcb s only No rccb or rcds or split load boards
Garage DB fuses are 16B 6B types
upstairs sockets on a 32 which also feeds garage it seems

 

[Dorset Seagull]

[SUB][/SUB]

Did it go bang when you switched the lights on ? Did you find the Switch wire when changing Light Fittings ?

The lights have been up a few weeks and yes I connected the switch wire. No it was shortly after i put the treadmill on which I have had in the garage a week or so and used a few times already without incident

 

[Blue3]

The fact your fuses keep blowing indicates a problem that needs further investigation I suspect the Garage supply does not meet current regulations while the regulations in themselves are not retrospective, as you have a fault any electrician contracted to look at this would be culpable should a accident result as such he would be duty bound to condemn the insulation unless it is as below

Supply to Garage should be directly from the house main distribution board via a dedicated MCB
The cable probably needs to be 10mm size two core armoured cable either clipped to a perminate structure and or buried below ground
The Garage needs its own distribution board
The earth for the supply in the garage must not be connected in any way to the earth in the house
A separate earth needs to be established through the use of earth rods
The garage distribution board outgoing circuits need to be protected by either RCB MCB combined or RCBO protection

 

[Justice]

I have a certificate for the work so presume the electrician was qualified

I would love to see a copy of that three cables rammed into a 32A MCB

 

[BN9 BHA]

I would love to see a copy of that three cables rammed into a 32A MCB

I knew you would enjoy this thread.

 

[Justice]

The fact your fuses keep blowing indicates a problem that needs further investigation I suspect the Garage supply does not meet current regulations while the regulations in themselves are not retrospective, as you have a fault any electrician contracted to look at this would be culpable should a accident result as such he would be duty bound to condemn the insulation unless it is as below

Supply to Garage should be directly from the house main distribution board via a dedicated MCB
The cable probably needs to be 10mm size two core armoured cable either clipped to a perminate structure and or buried below ground
The Garage needs its own distribution board
The earth for the supply in the garage must not be connected in any way to the earth in the house
A separate earth needs to be established through the use of earth rods
The garage distribution board outgoing circuits need to be protected by either RCB MCB combined or RCBO protection

 

[Justice]

I knew you would enjoy this thread.

I enjoy some of the advice which is mostly wrong

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I would love to see a copy of that three cables rammed into a 32A MCB

I’ll dig it out tomorrow and upload a pic if that helps

 

[Justice]

I’ll dig it out tomorrow and upload a pic if that helps

Ok should be interesting

 

[Hu_Camus]

Shame you’re not round here. I and probably others could recommend firms who have currently have capacity.

Watt? Ohm my god, I suppose resistance to these puns is futile, ( ...sighs with a Faradway look in his eyes) - will these Plancks will never stop.

* Secretly the author wonders if this reply merits induction onto the Board, or whether they will re-fuse *

 

[Blue3]

Exportation of TN-C-S to the garage

The contractor must consider the potential risks from a break in the supplier’s PEN conductor where the supply is a TN-C-S system. He/she must be fully satisfied, should the garage contain any extraneous-conductive-parts, that the protective bonding conductor is sized in accordance with the incoming neutral of the supply (Regulation 544.1.1 refers). In a domestic dwelling, typically this would mean that the minimum size of bonding conductor would be 10 mm2.



Due to the practicalities for satisfying these requirements, the contractor may decide to convert the earthing arrangement within the garage to a TT system, incorporating an earth electrode (Regulation 542.1.2.3) preferably combined with an RCD (Regulation 411.5.2). If the decision is made to convert the garage into a TT system, care must be taken to ensure that no extraneous-conductive-parts forming part of the main dwelling enters the garage, such as a water pipe as shown in Fig 2. (I take that to include the armouring of the cable hence two core and the gland is made off into a plastic box prior to the P-N conductors entering the garage db)

Where such an arrangement is carried out, the supply cable would still need to be earthed at the dwelling end, but isolated from the TT earthing system within the garage.

The size of the garage earthing conductor to the electrode will need to be determined (Regulation 542.3.1 Table 54.1 refers), and that the connection to the electrode is electrically and mechanically sound (Regulation 542.3.2 refers).

 

[Weststander]

Watt? Ohm my god, I suppose resistance to these puns is futile, ( ...sighs with a Faradway look in his eyes) - will these Plancks will never stop.

* Secretly the author wonders if this reply merits induction onto the Board, or whether they will re-fuse *

I can only amplify your post.

 

[Justice]

Exportation of TN-C-S to the garage

The contractor must consider the potential risks from a break in the supplier’s PEN conductor where the supply is a TN-C-S system. He/she must be fully satisfied, should the garage contain any extraneous-conductive-parts, that the protective bonding conductor is sized in accordance with the incoming neutral of the supply (Regulation 544.1.1 refers). In a domestic dwelling, typically this would mean that the minimum size of bonding conductor would be 10 mm2.



Due to the practicalities for satisfying these requirements, the contractor may decide to convert the earthing arrangement within the garage to a TT system, incorporating an earth electrode (Regulation 542.1.2.3) preferably combined with an RCD (Regulation 411.5.2). If the decision is made to convert the garage into a TT system, care must be taken to ensure that no extraneous-conductive-parts forming part of the main dwelling enters the garage, such as a water pipe as shown in Fig 2. (I take that to include the armouring of the cable hence two core and the gland is made off into a plastic box prior to the P-N conductors entering the garage db)

Where such an arrangement is carried out, the supply cable would still need to be earthed at the dwelling end, but isolated from the TT earthing system within the garage.

The size of the garage earthing conductor to the electrode will need to be determined (Regulation 542.3.1 Table 54.1 refers), and that the connection to the electrode is electrically and mechanically sound (Regulation 542.3.2 refers).

Whilst yes you could TT the garage why would you? If the cable supplying the garage is installed correctly the chance of a neutral break is practically zero. May have a point if it’s a long run of over head cabling. Nothing in BS7671 saying you can’t export TNCS and it provides a far safer installation IMO.

 

[Granny on the wing]

Whilst yes you could TT the garage why would you? If the cable supplying the garage is installed correctly the chance of a neutral break is practically zero. May have a point if it’s a long run of over head cabling. Nothing in BS7671 saying you can’t export TNCS and it provides a far safer installation IMO.

True and would it be a good idea to have RCD in the house near to DB or an RCBO and just a 2 Way DB with Isolator in the garage so the underground cable is protected ?

 

[Blue3]

Whilst yes you could TT the garage why would you? If the cable supplying the garage is installed correctly the chance of a neutral break is practically zero. May have a point if it’s a long run of over head cabling. Nothing in BS7671 saying you can’t export TNCS and it provides a far safer installation IMO.[/

All to do with disconnection times I agree if the garage is very adjacent to the house and db within then with a suitably sized cable earth then it might well be possible the trouble is in this case we do not know and with out more details and a calculation advising could be prove to be very wrong, while suitably installed earth rods close to the db board will garentee disconnection times

I think in fairness what we are both saying is the OP needs to be engaged to seek the services of a qualified registered electrician