Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Deadly Danson]

Of course it is BUT you could use the same argument to say it's better to have a lolly pop lady at on every crossing on the road.

Of course, but we've never had a lollypop lady on every road so it's not the same. I guess the equivalent would be to remove 50% of pedestrian crossings so that people can make more money getting to their destinations in their car.

I don't disagree with that at all. How much training does it take for someone to look down the platform see that its clear and then tell the driver they can shut the door or even shut it themselves? Surely you must have something in your cab telling you all the doors are shut properly and you are free to go?

We do have the interlock light to indicate doors are shut but in recent "trap and drag" cases it has been shown that people can have a coat or something stuck in the doors and it still shows we have interlock and once we take power the monitors go out so we couldn't see someone being dragged along. It could be argued that neither could the guard but at least he/she may hear the cries.

I'd much rather there were two people on the train of course I would. However I'm sensible enough to realise the world revolves around money and I'd rather a train ran without a second person than not at all.

Well at least you accept that safety is being compromised by money. That's a start.

 

[Arthur]

We do have the interlock light to indicate doors are shut but in recent "trap and drag" cases it has been shown that people can have a coat or something stuck in the doors and it still shows we have interlock and once we take power the monitors go out so we couldn't see someone being dragged along. It could be argued that neither could the guard but at least he/she may hear the cries.

How does it work on the tube then? They are very sensitive!! Given the age of the rolling stock on a lot of the networks I'm struggling to see how the technology would have regressed on the railway.

Also couldn't something like that be easily missed by a guard?

Well at least you accept that safety is being compromised by money. That's a start.

I've never disputed that. Just is it enough to warrant however many months of disruptions we've had? I don't think so.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

Actually agree to an extent - it is a bit arse about face but separate talks to the DOO dispute were started to try and agree an outstanding pay deal but no offer was put forward by the company that didn't include an agreement to run DOO and more importantly didn't guarantee a second safety critical person on board plus other changes to our terms and conditions were included so, in effect, no satisfactory offer was put forward regardless of the amount offered. Hope that makes some sort of sense. In my opinion Aslef should never have started pay talks anyway because it now looks as though all we want is more money to accept the DOO changes and it plays into the company's hands a bit so that they can put out statements intimating we are all greedy and just want more money.

Yup, it does make sense. Well, what you have written does. ASLEF's decision to muddy the waters by chucking in a pay dispute after saying, 'it's never been about pay', less so! As you say, the timing is terrible as it now looks like it's about the money and at a time when you need the public onside, it's very, very unhelpful. Even people like myself who are on your side are raising an eyebrow at ASLEF's latest statement.

Personally, I think your next vote should be over a vote of no confidence in Mick Whelan.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/ABCommuters/status/883190911869603841

[tweet]883190911869603841[/tweet]

 

[Baker lite]

How does it work on the tube then? They are very sensitive!! Given the age of the rolling stock on a lot of the networks I'm struggling to see how the technology would have regressed on the railway.

Also couldn't something like that be easily missed by a guard?



I've never disputed that. Just is it enough to warrant however many months of disruptions we've had? I don't think so.

The way it works on the tube is that the agreement was for better cctv,all stations to be manned at all times,better PTI signage and markings,stations that for one reason or another are not manned have to be closed and trains none stop,also trains are a lot shorter than main line trains and cctv is almost to HD standard,since the tube went OPO there have been some very nasty dragging incidents over the years and in My opinion it was a safer railway when crew operated.


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[Lower West Stander]

Surely having 2 seats of eyes and one pair of ears is preferable to just one set of ears viewing a dodgy quality monitor? Guard can check the platform (if it's curved they stand in the middle where they can see the whole train obviously), listen for any problems, spot any latecomers or anyone having difficulties whilst the driver acts as a second pair of eyes and watches the monitors. Why, on God's earth would anyone want to remove one layer of safety because that's all this dispute is really about.
However, you have talked of compromise - I think by common consent, given where we are, the compromise of making the OBS safety critically trained, guaranteed (maybe with the exception of severe disruption), lay down a proper procedure so that when the train stops the OBS signals to the driver that platform duties have been completed (i.e, no one needs assistance and all is safe as far as he/she can see - this already has to be done but there is no proper procedure for it) and the driver closes the doors using the monitors is a very reasonable compromise on our part. But we know that GTR and the Dft won't guarantee that second person and we all know why. Time for them to compromise I think.

I don't give a flying ****.

I just want you lot to get back to bloody work and stop ruining my life.


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[Thunder Bolt]

There are 89 unmanned stations in the Southern region. I could forsee a lot of them closing if DOO went ahead.

 

[Baker lite]

I don't give a flying ****.

I just want you lot to get back to bloody work and stop ruining my life.


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Well if you don't,thankfully they do.
One day,just one day people will start to listen to real experts in their field instead of some pompous suit who is only interested in profit.


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[Lower West Stander]

There are 89 unmanned stations in the Southern region. I could forsee a lot of them closing if DOO went ahead.

Are you a commuter?


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[Thunder Bolt]

Are you a commuter?


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I was, retired now.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Well if you don't,thankfully they do.
One day,just one day people will start to listen to real experts in their field instead of some pompous suit who is only interested in profit.


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I am not interested in profit.

I am interested in having a life.

I am not a "pompous suit" just someone who wants go home every night in time.

I am currently writing this on a train which is 25 minutes late.


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[Baker lite]

I am not interested in profit.

I am interested in having a life.

I am not a "pompous suit" just someone who wants go home every night in time.

I am currently writing this on a train which is 25 minutes late.


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Not calling you a pompous suit cocker,was on about the shiny arses that are pretending to run the railway,since privatisation the railway has had more public money pumped into it than when it was state owned,classic Tory trick,run an industry down and then flog it to a bunch of shysters that they just happen to have fagged for at Eton,I'm just so,so grateful that people still care passionately about the industry that they are prepared to fight for it.
All our other industries and manufacturing has been flushed down the khazi,let's try and protect this one eh?


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[beorhthelm]

There are 89 unmanned stations in the Southern region. I could forsee a lot of them closing if DOO went ahead.

why would that be? a large propotion of those are in the London Metro area, which have been DOO for decades. DOO is already here, and the various consultations and future planning for railways dont feature any station closures that i recall.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

why would that be? a large propotion of those are in the London Metro area, which have been DOO for decades. DOO is already here, and the various consultations and future planning for railways dont feature any station closures that i recall.

I live in Newhaven. It is unmanned except for the ticket office which is open from 9-12. That is going soon.

When the dispute started we lost our train service altogether for over three months with a replacement bus service. Even now, our service has been reduced to one an hour instead of two. The direct train to Victoria in the morning and home again in the evening has been dropped.
That's the whole Seaford line inc Southease, and Bishopstone as well.
Wheelchairs don't fit on the replacement buses, so disabled people are having to book taxis (when Southern bother ringing for them) just to get to work.

 

[Beach Hut]

I live in Newhaven. It is unmanned except for the ticket office which is open from 9-12. That is going soon.

When the dispute started we lost our train service altogether for over three months with a replacement bus service. Even now, our service has been reduced to one an hour instead of two. The direct train to Victoria in the morning and home again in the evening has been dropped.
That's the whole Seaford line inc Southease, and Bishopstone as well.
Wheelchairs don't fit on the replacement buses, so disabled people are having to book taxis (when Southern bother ringing for them) just to get to work.

When I worked in the ticket office there it was open 06:00 - 20:00

 

[beorhthelm]

Surely having 2 seats of eyes and one pair of ears is preferable to just one set of ears viewing a dodgy quality monitor? Guard can check the platform (if it's curved they stand in the middle where they can see the whole train obviously), listen for any problems, spot any latecomers or anyone having difficulties whilst the driver acts as a second pair of eyes and watches the monitors. Why, on God's earth would anyone want to remove one layer of safety because that's all this dispute is really about.
However, you have talked of compromise - I think by common consent, given where we are, the compromise of making the OBS safety critically trained, guaranteed (maybe with the exception of severe disruption), lay down a proper procedure so that when the train stops the OBS signals to the driver that platform duties have been completed (i.e, no one needs assistance and all is safe as far as he/she can see - this already has to be done but there is no proper procedure for it) and the driver closes the doors using the monitors is a very reasonable compromise on our part. But we know that GTR and the Dft won't guarantee that second person and we all know why. Time for them to compromise I think.

i think you're being reasonable there. the sticking point is disruption and the RMT refusal to agree any response to disruption that allows for single person operation.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

i think you're being reasonable there. the sticking point is disruption and the RMT refusal to agree any response to disruption that allows for single person operation.

GTR will not guarantee a second person on every train. Disabled people also commute so how are they going to get on a train?

 

[beorhthelm]

GTR will not guarantee a second person on every train. Disabled people also commute so how are they going to get on a train?

how are they going to get on a train during severe distruption, when half the services arent running and we're playing sardines?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

how are they going to get on a train during severe distruption, when half the services arent running and we're playing sardines?

Ask GTR, they're the ones who took over the franchise with only 75% of the workforce they actually needed. Yes, they keep saying they are training new drivers but it takes 18 months to train a driver, there is a lack of trainers, and when they're qualfied, they can only do certain routes. 62 drivers have left this year since January. More are leaving than can be trained.


No amount of pay rises, compromises or anything else is going to help the disabled, or even the able bodied until GTR are out.

 

[Gazwag]

Oh goody is it a coincidence that the strikes are starting again as the football season starts, more of the player budget disappearing then