beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,006
so say RMT to save face from their appalling handling of the dispute.
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Southern Rail STRIKE details
- Thread starter Ernest
- Start date
so say RMT to save face from their appalling handling of the dispute.
Lower West Stander
Well-known member
I'd love to earn enough to think that 23.8% payrise was irrelevant.....
DavidRyder
Well-known member
- Jul 23, 2013
- 2,930
There isn't ANOTHER strike on the way is there? Ladies & gentleman, really...
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
If it means going to jail, then yes, it is.
Baker lite
Banned
What are you not getting here?
Southern,or whatever they are calling them selves are trying to bribe drivers into an unsafe practice with a huge pay rise,drivers,quite correctly have told them to poke it up their hoops.
Listen to the people that work the railway every day of their lives and are passionate about their profession,not some Turd that's all about profit.
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Lower West Stander
Well-known member
And you try listening to us poor sods who have put up with our lives being disrupted every day.
I struggle to understand how anyone can take either side in this anymore.
They are equally cilpable
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Baker lite
Banned
3 sides in this,unions,Southern and the government,the government won't allow southern to do a deal as they want to inflict on the rail unions the same as Thatcher inflicted on the miners,this is all about trying to crush the union,it won't happen this time,people are much more informed now.
Well,some are.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The Association of British Commuters are tweeting the truth daily. They have taken the DfT to court over the government's handling of the franchise. They are commuters just like you and on your side.
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
Unrelated to strikes - but twice in the last week I've experienced an on board supervisor / conductor absolutely desperate to get the train moving as soon as time allows (30 seconds before departure time), meaning dozens missed their connecting train because the train they were on previously was delayed by a few minutes. On the first occasion I made mine, but many did not - but on the second occasion I missed my connection (as did every other single person - the supervisor closed his doors at the connecting train at Hove at exactly the same time as the arriving train opened theirs). It was more the principle rather than the extra journey time that annoyed me - why piss off dozens of people who were previously on a Southern train that was delayed by a few minutes, just so you can get away 30 seconds earlier? Just seemed to me a complete lack of care for the customer.
seagulls4ever
New member
- Oct 2, 2003
- 4,338
No idea how it works. On the first occasion the supervisor / conductor was screaming at passengers to get on the train so she could get away - and left loads behind (the train was miles up the platform in Brighton as well, making it even more difficult to make the connection in time). On the second, the supervisor / conductor could see the train coming into Hove and presumably could have kept the train behind for 30 seconds instead of presumably indicating to the driver that it was safe to go (I'm assuming DOO refers to the driver). The supervisor / conductor on the train that arrived in Hove also thought it was ridiculous and was very apologetic, saying that would never usually happen. I could see the situation unfolding as my train arrived and I asked her if that train was going to leave - she said they would wait for us. They didn't.
sydney
tinky ****in winky
because until there is an extended period of driver only trains there will be no data to compare.......any fool can see the benefit of having a second pair of eyes, ears and hands on every train ....shirley..
That makes no sense. If, as Thunderbolts keeps repeating, drivers run the risk of jail if an accident occurs why on earth would you step foot on a DOO train? The concept of it being illegal to refuse to drive a train also makes no sense. It cannot be illegal to refuse to drive a train. It can be a sackable offence but you won't get arrested and jailed for it. Of that I assure you.
I'm fast getting the idea that union members don't really know why they are taking action, they are just swept up in the whole thing.
From elsewhere
Bit long winded but worth a read for those taking an interest.
ASLEF/RMT ANNOUNCE DRIVER STRIKE ACTION ON THE 1st 3 & 4th of AUGUST AS THE DFT/GTR WAGE WAR ON THE RAIL UNIONS
With the announcement of 3 days of strike action it is important that we recognise what has triggered this escalation in the long running dispute .
ASLEF suspended their industrial action and entered into talks with GTR at the start of June to try and make progress on three issues , terms and conditions , industrial relations and their 2016 pay talks .
The Union was clear from the outset that the pay talks must be separate from any DOO discussions. Mick Whelan ASLEF General Secretary stated that there would be "parallel but separate talks".
Despite this clear statement by Mick Whelan the pay offer tabled by GTR contained the following clause ;
' these increases are linked to the following changes in driver working practises and terms and conditions, and is made on the basis that:
1. Driver Only Operation
Driver only Operation is confirmed as the standard mode of operation for Southern and Gatwick Express Drivers, where the train is equipped with in cab CCTV and the track and signalling infrastructure meets the relevant standards for DOO operation. '
This transparent attempt by GTR to bully Drivers by withholding their 2016 pay award unless they agreed to end their long running dispute over the imposition of DOO was rejected immediately by the ASLEF National Executive . A decision which was overwhelmingly ratified by the Drivers in the recent ballot leading to the announcement of the 3 days of strike action.
It is GTR who must be held responsible for this escalation in industrial action .To secure a wage offer to address their members 2016 wage claim Aslef were faced with the stark choice of abandoning their national policy and surrendering their fight against the imposition of DOO or balloting their members for strike action. This clause made it impossible for ASLEF to accept the wage offer without ratifying DOO. GTR/DFT knew that by inserting this clause into the offer they would make it impossible for ASLEF to do anything other than reject it as it would be a breach of Union policy.
The DFT/GTR knew that by making a wage offer which the ASLEF leadership would be forced to reject that this would give them the opportunity to convince Drivers that the Union had denied them a 23.8% wage rise. Their hope was to turn Southern Drivers against the Union causing fatal damage to ASLEF on Southern. This and the other attempts to undermine the Unions is all part of the long term DFT strategy outlined by Peter Wilkinson at the end of 2015 when he said he would kick the Unions out of his industry .
The strike action announced by ASLEF is not about securing an improved financial package but is in response to this attempt by the DFT/GTR to undermine the Union .The DFT/GTR believed that combining the acceptance of DOO with the wage offer put them in a win win position. ASLEF's rejection of the pay offer would either, incense Drivers causing internal disputes leading to a seriously weakened Union or the Drivers would support the Union in their rejection of the offer allowing the DFT /GTR to isolate them and demonise them in the eyes of other rail staff and the travelling public by portraying them as militant and greedy .
It is important that it is recognised that the rejection of this offer by the ASLEF National Executive and the vote for industrial action by Southern drivers is to be welcomed by everyone who wants to see a Safe, Accessible and Secure rail network .
The catalyst for three days of strike action in August is not greed on the part of Southern Drivers but the contempt Peter Wilkinson and his friends at the DFT have for Trade Unions and his obsession with " kicking them out of his industry". Wilkinson knows that he must first weaken the rail Unions before the DFT can implement their plans to run the network on a skeleton staff which will allow them to maximise profits at the cost of safety ,accessibility and Security. Wilkinson and his kind want to run an industry without having to deal with Unions continually challenging them about the Safety of passengers , the Rights of the disabled and the Terms and Conditions of their Members, an industry run for the benefit of private investors not for the benefit of the travelling public.
If further proof was needed to confirm that the DFT and the Government are behind this de-staffing of the rail network and the war on the Rail Unions then take note of the latest reported comments made by Chancellor Philip Hammond at the Cabinet meeting on Tuesday 11th July 2017. It was reported in the press that he was trying to make a point about how easy the job of driving a train had become, saying "even they (women) can do it". The story is being reported due to his comments being clearly sexist but the question that needs to be asked is what was the Chancellor doing at a Cabinet meeting devaluing the role of the Train Driver . This comment by Hammond confirms discussions are taking place at Cabinet level to attack rail staff and their Unions. The only other explanation would be that this is Hammond's answer to the possibility of a skills crisis post Brexit , Short of neurosurgeons "don't worry it's so easy even women can do it " short of nuclear physicists " don't worry it's so easy even women can do it " short of rich, fat cat loving, worker hating elitists " don't worry there is Philip Hammond and 315 of his smug Tory mates who can fill the role " ( please note this figure is predicted to drop dramatically after the next election ).
These comments made in a Cabinet meeting highlight that the attacks on the rail unions are know being orchestrated by this discredited Tory Government at the highest level while the sexist element to Hammond's comments illustrates how well suited the Tories are to their coalition partners the DUP, truly a marriage made in hell
It is vitally important that we get this message out to counter the Government led anti Union propaganda which is now being aimed at the ASLEF/RMT Southern Drivers for their action planned for August. They are already condemning the greed of ASLEF for rejecting a 23.8% pay offer but are conveniently forgetting to mention that it was only offered if they ended their dispute over the imposition of DOO. It is essential that everyone who wants to see a Safe, Accessible and Secure rail network understands that we can only win this battle if we ensure that they fail in their attempt to isolate Southern Drivers. This is a dispute planned by the Government ,the DFT and GTR in an attempt to divide and weaken the Rail Unions and to discredit them in the eyes of the Disability Groups, Commuter Groups and the Travelling Public. We need to ensure that we make use of all means available to us to counter their misinformation with the truth. Providing we can remain united and retain the support of those who are reliant on the rail industry we will be successful .
Bit long winded but worth a read for those taking an interest.
ASLEF/RMT ANNOUNCE DRIVER STRIKE ACTION ON THE 1st 3 & 4th of AUGUST AS THE DFT/GTR WAGE WAR ON THE RAIL UNIONS
With the announcement of 3 days of strike action it is important that we recognise what has triggered this escalation in the long running dispute .
ASLEF suspended their industrial action and entered into talks with GTR at the start of June to try and make progress on three issues , terms and conditions , industrial relations and their 2016 pay talks .
The Union was clear from the outset that the pay talks must be separate from any DOO discussions. Mick Whelan ASLEF General Secretary stated that there would be "parallel but separate talks".
Despite this clear statement by Mick Whelan the pay offer tabled by GTR contained the following clause ;
' these increases are linked to the following changes in driver working practises and terms and conditions, and is made on the basis that:
1. Driver Only Operation
Driver only Operation is confirmed as the standard mode of operation for Southern and Gatwick Express Drivers, where the train is equipped with in cab CCTV and the track and signalling infrastructure meets the relevant standards for DOO operation. '
This transparent attempt by GTR to bully Drivers by withholding their 2016 pay award unless they agreed to end their long running dispute over the imposition of DOO was rejected immediately by the ASLEF National Executive . A decision which was overwhelmingly ratified by the Drivers in the recent ballot leading to the announcement of the 3 days of strike action.
It is GTR who must be held responsible for this escalation in industrial action .To secure a wage offer to address their members 2016 wage claim Aslef were faced with the stark choice of abandoning their national policy and surrendering their fight against the imposition of DOO or balloting their members for strike action. This clause made it impossible for ASLEF to accept the wage offer without ratifying DOO. GTR/DFT knew that by inserting this clause into the offer they would make it impossible for ASLEF to do anything other than reject it as it would be a breach of Union policy.
The DFT/GTR knew that by making a wage offer which the ASLEF leadership would be forced to reject that this would give them the opportunity to convince Drivers that the Union had denied them a 23.8% wage rise. Their hope was to turn Southern Drivers against the Union causing fatal damage to ASLEF on Southern. This and the other attempts to undermine the Unions is all part of the long term DFT strategy outlined by Peter Wilkinson at the end of 2015 when he said he would kick the Unions out of his industry .
The strike action announced by ASLEF is not about securing an improved financial package but is in response to this attempt by the DFT/GTR to undermine the Union .The DFT/GTR believed that combining the acceptance of DOO with the wage offer put them in a win win position. ASLEF's rejection of the pay offer would either, incense Drivers causing internal disputes leading to a seriously weakened Union or the Drivers would support the Union in their rejection of the offer allowing the DFT /GTR to isolate them and demonise them in the eyes of other rail staff and the travelling public by portraying them as militant and greedy .
It is important that it is recognised that the rejection of this offer by the ASLEF National Executive and the vote for industrial action by Southern drivers is to be welcomed by everyone who wants to see a Safe, Accessible and Secure rail network .
The catalyst for three days of strike action in August is not greed on the part of Southern Drivers but the contempt Peter Wilkinson and his friends at the DFT have for Trade Unions and his obsession with " kicking them out of his industry". Wilkinson knows that he must first weaken the rail Unions before the DFT can implement their plans to run the network on a skeleton staff which will allow them to maximise profits at the cost of safety ,accessibility and Security. Wilkinson and his kind want to run an industry without having to deal with Unions continually challenging them about the Safety of passengers , the Rights of the disabled and the Terms and Conditions of their Members, an industry run for the benefit of private investors not for the benefit of the travelling public.
If further proof was needed to confirm that the DFT and the Government are behind this de-staffing of the rail network and the war on the Rail Unions then take note of the latest reported comments made by Chancellor Philip Hammond at the Cabinet meeting on Tuesday 11th July 2017. It was reported in the press that he was trying to make a point about how easy the job of driving a train had become, saying "even they (women) can do it". The story is being reported due to his comments being clearly sexist but the question that needs to be asked is what was the Chancellor doing at a Cabinet meeting devaluing the role of the Train Driver . This comment by Hammond confirms discussions are taking place at Cabinet level to attack rail staff and their Unions. The only other explanation would be that this is Hammond's answer to the possibility of a skills crisis post Brexit , Short of neurosurgeons "don't worry it's so easy even women can do it " short of nuclear physicists " don't worry it's so easy even women can do it " short of rich, fat cat loving, worker hating elitists " don't worry there is Philip Hammond and 315 of his smug Tory mates who can fill the role " ( please note this figure is predicted to drop dramatically after the next election ).
These comments made in a Cabinet meeting highlight that the attacks on the rail unions are know being orchestrated by this discredited Tory Government at the highest level while the sexist element to Hammond's comments illustrates how well suited the Tories are to their coalition partners the DUP, truly a marriage made in hell
It is vitally important that we get this message out to counter the Government led anti Union propaganda which is now being aimed at the ASLEF/RMT Southern Drivers for their action planned for August. They are already condemning the greed of ASLEF for rejecting a 23.8% pay offer but are conveniently forgetting to mention that it was only offered if they ended their dispute over the imposition of DOO. It is essential that everyone who wants to see a Safe, Accessible and Secure rail network understands that we can only win this battle if we ensure that they fail in their attempt to isolate Southern Drivers. This is a dispute planned by the Government ,the DFT and GTR in an attempt to divide and weaken the Rail Unions and to discredit them in the eyes of the Disability Groups, Commuter Groups and the Travelling Public. We need to ensure that we make use of all means available to us to counter their misinformation with the truth. Providing we can remain united and retain the support of those who are reliant on the rail industry we will be successful .
Baker lite
Banned
I thought the next ASLEF dates were 1st,2nd and 4th August?
Baker lite
Banned
Militants *******s etc,if they don't like it they should get another job etc,
I'm going to Goodwood on the Wednesday.
Sack the lot of em.